Bardas I Mamikonean - wrong cut

Carl Gustav Verbraeken revealed his sources* :D
..but Erkki A Tikkanen (Geni Curator- On Hiatus) was no longer active after the error :/

..Erica Howton I begin to worry ^^'

Not wrong cut, but in a hurry I ignored the brother. Now corrected.

now Private User cut it..

-Konstantinos Mamikonian, of Adrianople was N.N. by (C) Erkki A Tikkanen (Geni Curator- On Hiatus)...
but has been transformed by USER Brenda Ann Blaine in exactly the same Konstantinos Mamikonian, of Adrianople by un-sourced DIY online tree warned. [Carl Gustav Verbraeken (C) DiY original importer]

-A couple of generations up (and here we are well above the historical rarities of the pre 1000:) USER Gerardus Dingeman van der Sluijs wants to merge his fresh clones on Leo V "the Armenian", byzantine emperor...

-but Private User (C) cuts the rightly documented brother and does not notice anything, not even this warning notification while he was doing it...

-nobody writes anything and leaves a trace of anything and the only one who notices all this mess is me !? LOL

Mike Stangel yes of course I can pull Erica Howton's skirt to come here.. but I think you should give it a raise! :D

Moved Simbatios, the Armenian to brother of Bardas I

@Erica.. which then LOL.. all this mess, which is nothing more than another know MP node!:
- Leo V "the Armenian", byzantine emperor [2007 DUPLICATE :] (with requests to merge other fresh 2020 clones :)
-is Leo V "the Armenian", byzantine emperor [MP] :D

heheeh with 2 MP children to MERGE:
(it is the same co-emperor son with the name of born and co-emperor)

-Symbatios "Constantine" [MP]
-Symbatios "Constantine" [MP]

*https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000002188303798?return=dupli...
(..the know mother is the wife)

I see you working well... a very small detail:
After the MP merge: Symbatios "Constantine" is no longer the firstborn, and with the block I can not renumber .. you think about it :)

I simplified the duplicate tree (merging new duplicate of duplicate in the old duplicate:) and I believe we can delete everything.
The junction point to study is Narses Kamsarakan .

What has happened to his father, Konstantinos Mamikonean? Konstantinos's mother, NN Gnuni? Her mother, Théodosia de Byzance? And so on.

Bo Jason Bryant you have to paste the "browse link" of the profiles, anyway my super insight tells me that you are referring to the duplicated clone node and that if you open the profiles you will find the link to the MPs.

Erica Howton looking at him I think we came across a DiY "vertical line";)
-under the MP node there is this Bardas I [CLONE?] of this Bardas I MP discussion!?

especially considering his unfounded bride on another MP node
“Anna”, of Byzantium

Unfortunately, all I know of is that I screenshotted my path to Aristomachus (before someone changed Bardas) where Bardas I Mamikonean is shown to be my 37th great-grandfather and now he has no parents. Furthermore, how can the validity of changing what was the lineage be so certain when Bardas had a son with a different spelling of Mamikonean?

How are name spellings relevant? They weren’t speaking English. :). All that matters is the quality of the source, not a relationship path.

Livio Scremin I’m a bit lost, I’m afraid. Need orientation.

OK - Maybe this is it?

Bardas I & “Anna”, of Byzantium didn’t exist?

Double check needed. They’ve been isolated.

A source blog from the Armenian people.

https://www.peopleofar.com/2019/10/19/byzantine-emperors-of-armenia...

And citing Settipani and Medlands:

https://thesignsofthetimes.com.au/35/69426.htm

Settipani shows Basil as son of Pankalo and her husband, perhaps named Constantine. 2

The spelling is relevant it is -ian both in generations before and after Bardas, according to the screen shot I have. That said, upon researching, I'm thinking this information is incorrect about Bardas and the screenshot information of Konstantinos as his father. Multiple sources cite Marinos as the father of Bardas. Along with the story of murdering Michael III. Here is one such source: http://www.hellenicaworld.com/Byzantium/Person/en/Bardas.html

So it turns out this is about the the ancestry of Basil I, Byzantine Emperor - at least, that what I’m up to. He was the son of

N.N. & Pankalo

Pankalo’s husband could have been called Constantine (Settipani), but I do not think he was meant to be the same person as Konstantinos Mamikonian, of Adrianople. According to Wikipedia Pankalo’s husband was called Bardas. Geni MP tree calling him unknown is best we know in my opinion. Basil l Emperor’s ethnic origins are controversial but Armenian peasants seem to be the consensus - not Greek princes.

https://erenow.net/postclassical/byzantium-the-apogee/7.php

One of these men, who makes his first appearance in 857 or thereabouts, was a rough and totally uneducated Armenian peasant by the name of Basil. His family, like so many of their countrymen, had been settled in Thrace; but they had subsequently been taken prisoner by Krum and had been transported beyond the Danube to an area known as 'Macedonia' — probably because of the number of Macedonians who had suffered a similar fate. Here Basil had spent much of his childhood, and it is as 'the Macedonian' that he and his dynasty are most misleadingly known, despite the fact that he possessed not one drop of true Macedonian blood, spoke Armenian as his first language and Greek only with a heavy Armenian accent. Devoid of any intellectual accomplishments - he was entirely illiterate, and remained so all his life - he could boast only two obvious assets: Herculean physical strength and a remarkable way with horses. Either of these may have been responsible for his first attracting the Emperor's notice. ....

N.N. is sourced as son of https://www.geni.com/people/Maïktes/6000000056402279022?through=600... but Hmayeak Mamikonian, noble of Adrianople, his clone, has no source as son of Hmayeak Mamikonian, noble of Adrianople

Gerardus Dingeman van der Sluijs Do you have a reference?

Here’s a discussion about the Mamikonians.

https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/dky7vW5TV_s

Mamikonians - how far proven?
Steve Williamson
May 21, 2002, 6:18:01 AM

Hi!

Just for the sake of argument, let's say we accept Byzantine Emperor Michael
III as father of Leo the Wise (debated still); & we accept Michael as son of
Theophilus & Theodora (proven?); & Theodora as dtr of Marinos Mamikonian &
Theokista (proven?). Starting from Marinos, at what points do we transition
from 'proven' to 'probable' to 'possible' to 'speculative'?

In other words, how far back can the Mamikonian line be considered reliable
from the point of view of a skeptic, not necessarily wanting to show a
POSSIBLE Descent from Antiquity (as in Settipani's work), but merely to
trace known/proven ancestors? Maybe at Hmayeak Mamikonian, b 700, son of
Artavazd (I think Settipani shows a dashed line from son to father at that
point)?

I'm of course referring to Christian Settipani's "Nos Ancetres de
L'Antiquite, Etudes des possibilites de liens genealogiques entre les
familles de l'Antiquite" Paris: Editions Christian, 1991.

Anyone want to take this up? Is it even a valid question?

——

It’s from three good genealogists but it’s probably too speculative for this site.

http://erwan.gil.free.fr/modules/freepages/pharaons/ramses_II.pdf

Mamikonians of Armenia on page 13.

https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000164070185830 Has been added to profiles described from Leo V "the Armenian", byzantine emperor to Leo VI 'The Wise' Byzantine Emperor

Erica Howton it's a pleasure to see you work!
(I hope my JPGs signals have been useful to you ;)

Hi Erica,

My source is https://gw.geneanet.org/pmlhennings?lang=en&pz=vorname+unbekann...

Another source is Coret Genealogie. http://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/: accessed 31 August 2015.

And: https://anthonyadolph.co.uk/descent-from-the-kings-of-lydia/

Other sources mention Artavasd as his father.
Glad to hear your opinion on this.

Best regards,

So Anthony Adolph’s site looks based on this study:

http://erwan.gil.free.fr/modules/freepages/pharaons/ramses_II.pdf

Which includes some speculative links. Settipani is considered a foremost scholar in “descent from antiquity” but it’s not for amateurs like me, that’s for sure. Geni needs to be “more” conservative than Settipani, particularly since DFA is still a work in progress, and us genealogists are trying to be as proven as possible.

More next ....

Livio Scremin I ended up merging more than isolating because other language names came in which saved typing. This family should have Greek, English and French names if possible, and more.

Gerardus Dingeman van der Sluijs The problem with your entries is that the Geni tree got messed up by the duplication. There is no need to enter profiles (except as repairs like I did, sourced first) before about 1800, your own family. It’s on Geni already.

Adjustments from discussion tab of profile, with source citation.

Settipani argues that Pankalo husband, father of Basil I, Byzantine Emperor Was the same person as Konstantinos Mamikonian, of Adrianople

Other authorities disagree, or are not sure. Basil l is called an illiterate child of peasants from Thrace. So we have his father as N.N. (Unknown) on Geni.

Erica,

Thank you for your advice. Will follow that.