John "the Surgeon" Greene - Fraudulent Genealogy and Parentage

Seems like the right thing to do.

Probably also need to check 'membership' in associated projects.

Yes, please. Adding links in the “about” to disconnected family makes it easier to explain if it comes up again. Projects seem appropriate.

I disagree. I have substantial proof to my John Greene line. Can you please wait for one week before disconnecting? He is also a proven ancestor for applicants to Colonial Dames.

Tomas, to get you started on the Greene family, here's the name of the book by George Sears. "The Greenes of Rhode Island, with Historical records of English Ancestry, 1534-1902", by Greene, George Sears, 1801-1899. This book can be found online. Begin at the chapter on p. 38. "The Greenes of Dorsetshire". Continue to p. 41, "The Settlement of Warwick, RI". And, onto p. 52, "The Greene Family". This detailed book on The Greene Family will give you some solid information. I think you will find most of the information on the John Greene family that you are seeking. This week I will also check with my Colonial Dames organization to review some of the applications that used Major (Dr.) John Greene as their Colonial ancestor. IMO, there should be no dispute that the parents of John Greene are Richard Greene and Mary Hooker (daughter of John Hooker).

I say NO! Not till proper investigation is done by creditable Master Genealogist, and historians. This sounds like certain parties is trying to rearrange history again, and Gen/myHeritage should also investigate this issue. Instead of sweeping it under the rug.

Susan Frost
I see Tamas in his first post quoting from Wikipedia including "Anderson says he was the son of Richard Greene and Mary Hooker, of Bowridge Hill in Gillingham, Dorset, England, but cites the questionable "Greenes of Rhode Island" as his source"

And I see you saying "to get you started on the Greene family, here's the name of the book by George Sears. "The Greenes of Rhode Island, with Historical records of English Ancestry, 1534-1902", by Greene, George Sears, 1801-1899."

- which I take it is the same book. So seems difference of opinion regarding that book.

Susan Frost Thanks for highlighting that book, lets take a look at what it contains. The book relies heavily on Somerby's findings to make the connection between the immigrant John Greene and Richard Greene and Mary Hooker.

Example on page 32: “Note — Mr. H. G. Somerby, of Massachusetts, went to England and engaged in genealogical researches for New England families. He made up the records of the Greene family of Warwick and of the Arnolds of Rhode Island to some extent; the Greenes, at the request of Rev. John Singleton Copley Greene, of Boston, and the Arnolds, at the request of Mr. Benj. Greene Arnold of New York, a native of Warwick, R. I. General Geo. S. Greene furnished material for the identifica- tion of both of these families from his collection”

NOTE – the phrase “made up” is quite an amusing choice given what we now know about Somerby’s work, but I think it should be read more as “assembled” or “put together.”

Page 33: “Among the "Abstracts of English Wills" submitted by Mr. Somerby was that of John Greene of Cucklington, County Somerset, husbandman, dated April i6, 1620, proved May 22, 1620, in which he bequeathed to the parishes of Cucklington, East Flower, West Flower, and Gillingham, £30 for the poor; mentions William Greene, Hugh Greene, John Greene, Richard Greene, Simon Greene, and his kinsman, William Nelson of Gillingham; also appoints Morgan Cave of Gillingham one of the supervisors of his will ; all of which may be considered conclusive proof of close relationship between the Somersetshire and Dorsetshire branches. In further support of Mr. Somerby's theory, it may be stated that the second son of Richard Greene of Bowridge Hill, Gillingham, County Dorset, was Robert of Cucklington, County Somerset, the brother of John Greene, the American ancestor, to whom he willed his Latin books. (See "The Greenes of Dorsetshire.")”

Example on page 35: “Mr. Somerby reached his conclusions regarding the descent of Rhode Island Greenes from Thomas, third son of Sir Henry Greene, only after pro- longed search among public records at the Prerogative Court of Canterbury,, London, and at the British Museum, and careful examination of parish registers, wills, etc., in the south of England, aided by considerable corre- spondence with descendants in America. Upon the results of this faithful research he based his firm belief that the Dorsetshire branch of the Greene family were lineal descendants of Sir Henry Greene, Lord Chief Justice of England, through his grandson Thomas, the third son of Sir Henry Greene of Drayton, Northamptonshir”

At the core of this problem is a will which Somerby “found” for Robert Greene of Cucklington (on page 741): “Item: To my brother John Greene in New England all my Latin books if he come for them.” If this were true it would be great, but researchers appear to have not been able to find this document and Somerby’s reputation renders all his work, and those which rely on his findings (such as "Greenes of Rhode Island"), suspect. Because of the “Greenes of Rhode Island” reliance on the work of a known fraud, the book’s contents (at least for the connection in question here) are rendered highly questionable and I would argue unusable. I would stress that the “substantial proof” we need here must come from primary sources, and in particular, finding if the will of Robert Greene of Cucklington even exists and if it actually contains the information that Somerby claimed it did.

Here is some more info on Somerby: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Horatio_Gates_Somerby_Fraud

Tomas, since John "the Surgeon" Green is my 10th GGF and I will add a copy of the will of John Greene to the source section. And, I will double check the information on his profile. However, curator Hatte Anne Blejer is one of the best Geni curators. She is very thorough and accurate. Again please do not make any changes to the profile of John "the Surgeon". It will just create needless havoc. Thank you! Susan Frost
→ William Gardner Frost
your father → Edith Gardner Frost Reckless
his mother → William Henry Gardner
her father → Matilda Phebe Gardner
his mother → Mary Ann Clarke
her mother → Ann Dickinson Paine
her mother → Ann Sands
her mother → Ann Niles
her mother → Charles Dickinson
her father → Philippa Dickinson
his mother → Major John Greene, II
her father → John "the Surgeon" Greene
his father

I just went into NEGHS and read Robert Charles Anderson's account of John "the Surgeon" Greene.

We know Anderson does careful work and in general we accept Anderson's research into early immigrants. Therefore, I suggested that we do NT detach these parents but instead cite both Anderson's The Great Migration Project (I can provide the citation) AND the WikiTree discussion as current, competing accounts.

NT = NOT

Thank you Hatte Anne Blejer for your note and for your agreement about not detaching the parents of John Greene. Regarding the will of John "the surgeon" Greene can be found on AmericanAncestors.org if you are a member of NEHGS. Put in his birth and death date and type in John Green and go to the section on Vitals. It is on pp. 247-248 and say "Will of John Green, of Warwick, RI" at the top of the page. As a member of NEHGS, you have access to the largest repository of early immigrants and historic figures in the US. Will worth the cost for the serious researcher seeking to solve the puzzles of your ancestors. Also, Tomas, since you are seeking verification of the parents of John Greene, perhaps you should start a separate discussion about his parents, Richard Greene and Mary Hooker.