Cornelis Kees Claesz Claassen, SV/PROG 1 - Death Date?

Started by Sharon Doubell on Thursday, July 15, 2021
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7/15/2021 at 2:41 AM

Regarding death date as 31 July 1688 (53) - Richard Ball notes this:

I have assumed that he died around 1688, before his wife remarried, but there is an entry On 26th October 1708, in a letter to the person in charge at Robben Island, 'the convict Kees de Boer', is mentioned. (Leibbrandt, Letters Dispatched, 1695-1708, page 394). http://www.ballfamilyrecords.co.uk/robberts/I022.html

7/18/2021 at 11:26 PM

It is highly unlikely that the individual named as Kees de Boer in 1708 in the Letters Despatched is the same individual as Cornelis Claesz:. When Cathaina married Voormeester in 1688 it is very clearly stipulated that she was the widow of the deceased Claasze. While there are occasional errors in the church records, they are mostly minor. An error such as this is highly unlikely. See the transacription.
(Mar): Ao 1688
ultimo July (den 25 Julij is crossed out)
Andries Voormeester van Guedelborg vrijborger aen Stellenbos jongman met Catarina van de Cust Coromandel Wed. wijle den overleden vrijborger Cornelis Claasze

J P Weyers
7/18/2021 at 11:36 PM

Makes me question if Kees de Boer and Cornelis Claasze were the same person then .
Assumed to be but 2 different individuals actually.

J P Weyers
7/18/2021 at 11:47 PM

Not the first first or last assumed identities for different individuals especially in Stamouers I have noticed .
More information as presented here by Delia shows us that we must be so carefull assuming 2 or 3 different individuals with similar nanes were the same.
Using ny own family : 3 cousins exaxt same names born 1956 ,1957 ,1958 or 4 same 1929 , 1930 ,1930 and 1932 or 5 same 1860 to 1870

7/19/2021 at 12:52 AM

Yes Phillipp, Cornelis Claesz: was also known as Kees de Boer. It is stated as such in his daughter Catharina's baptism, viz:
Ao:' 1684
eodem dito (5 November) Catharina
[Kees] de Bo[e]r en Catharina
Marytie van Juffr. Beroo

And in the marriage record of his step-daughter Adriaentje Gabrielsz:

ao' 1683. eodem dito [den 4. Julij]. Pieter Gerrits zoo, Jonghman, vryburgh en Aedriantie stiefdogter van Kees de boer [ at the time Cornelis Claasz/Kees de Boer was married to Catharina van Malabar, confirmation she is the woman who baptised Adriaantje in 1667]

J P Weyers
7/19/2021 at 1:18 AM

Then another Kees de Boer still alive in 1708 or ?

J P Weyers
7/19/2021 at 1:21 AM

If first one died before 1688 could this have been a son alive in 1708 ?
The convict Kees de Boer mentioned in 1708 dispatches ?

J P Weyers
7/19/2021 at 1:33 AM

e.g.
1977 Alta,Troccello girlfriend JP Weyers born 1958
1978 A Trocello married JP Weyers born 1956
2000 Alta Trocello attend funeral of JP Weyers born 1957 could it be her husband.
This happens more often than most people are prepared to accept

But not all the sane Kees !!!

7/19/2021 at 1:48 AM

Oh damn. So there may be two families merged into one here?

J P Weyers
7/19/2021 at 2:27 AM

Possible---

7/20/2021 at 3:16 AM

Why have you still got Isabella from Angola as mother of Adriaentje Gabrielsz:? I am sure this has been discussed before? Please look at her profile page on FFY (btw NOT FFYP) here: http://e-family.co.za/ffy/g7/p7069.htm And where the evidence in the record that she is daughter to Catharina v Malabar is very clearly laid out and further down the page where the DNA evidence is discussed.

7/20/2021 at 6:24 AM
7/20/2021 at 6:27 AM

Also removing Lucia Hiubrecht Claasen as his mother, pending sources.

7/20/2021 at 6:36 AM

Where does the AKA: van Quaelbergen come from?

7/20/2021 at 6:41 AM

From where does the 30/06/1635 baptism date come?

7/20/2021 at 6:53 AM

Private - do you know ?

7/20/2021 at 6:56 AM

Delia Robertson you were seeing a merge of the children removed above. Thanks for spotting. I've locked the relationships on this profile now.

Adriaantje Gabrielsz, SM/Prog is still there as a child of Catharina (Catrijn) van Malabar, SM/PROG

J P Weyers
7/20/2021 at 6:56 AM

When Adriaantje is married she is described as the step-daughter of Catharina van Malabar's husband||in this way: ao' 1683, eodem dito [den 4. Julij], Pieter Gerrits zoo, Jonghman, vryburgh en Aedriantie stiefdogter van Kees de boer

So step daughter or Daughter of Cornelis Claesz, SV/PROG 1 ?

J P Weyers
7/20/2021 at 6:57 AM

Where does the AKA: van Quaelbergen come from?

This not van Cathryn sale on slavemarket ?

7/20/2021 at 6:58 AM

Stepdaughter

J P Weyers
7/20/2021 at 6:58 AM

Catharine van Malabar was a slave belonging to Cornelis van Qualbergen.

AKA: van Quaelbergen

J P Weyers
7/20/2021 at 7:02 AM

Catharina (Catrijn) van Malabar, SM/PROG is your 8th great grandmother.

I am sure the 4 to 5 % Bengali atDNA I have comes directly from her !

Private
7/20/2021 at 7:04 AM

At this stage I am really building a new line in my family and after the new profiles added I must still ad the sources, DVN, etc.

If I have to leave now to look for old sources I will be totally lost or someone might add/remove/merge incorrect profiles and the whole operation of building onto the tree I am working on will be in havoc again. So please excuse me from this for now.

If you look at the profile and all the information, etc there, I can only see the one name. But that was hours ago when I started my adding etc. for today.

SO asseblief, not to misunderstand me again " Kan ek asseblief eers op die nuwe informasie voortgaan en as ek nog tyd het vandag sal ek die bronne en vrae van hierdie beantwoord na die beste vanmy vermoë."

I am sure bothe Phillipp ( totally an Afrikaans speaking person) and Delia will be able to translate this is needed.

Judi

7/20/2021 at 7:04 AM

This not van Cathryn sale on slavemarket ?

I assume so - but what's it doing on his profile if they're different men?

J P Weyers
7/20/2021 at 7:09 AM

I picture Cattryn as Sharmilla Biswas ! or Rabindranath Tangore !

I have exquisite print -=Uit het provinsie van Oude Lucknow Bengali Women dancing for soldiers 1784.
That is Catharina van Malabar .

J P Weyers
7/20/2021 at 7:11 AM

Catharine van Malabar was a slave belonging to Cornelis van Qualbergen.

J P Weyers
7/20/2021 at 7:14 AM

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-review-of-soc...

Just for more interest -- whom Catharina might have been

Showing 1-30 of 57 posts

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