Thomas Harrell, of Chowan County - Discussion to sort some of the issues with Thomas Harrell, of Chowan County.

Kathleen Ann Harrell tagging you so you will see the discussion later.

According to https://hdhdata.org/roots/c2739.html,

Thomas Harrell, the Immigrant had three sons with Ann Harrell

Thomas Harrell, of Chowan County and wife Elizabeth unknown who had three children:

Edward Harrell

Samuel Harrell

Thomas Harrell, Sr.

It is noted that Thomas married the wife of Samuel after Samuel died. Not uncommon. Thomas' daughter Esther married the son Edward named Thomas. This is where something funky has happened, I think and needs to be corrected.

Here is what I have found that may make sense of the other Samuel Harrell

From "Harrell Family of Eastern North Carolina," by Linda Bridgers Boyette and Doris Bridgers Capps-Owens:

Thomas Harrwell. b. circa 1606 England. d. ? Nansemond Co. Virginia

Thomas Harrell. b. abt. 1640. Nansemond Co. Virginia d. ? Nansemond Co. Virginia

Thomas Harrell b. abt 1670 Nansemond Co. Virginia d. 1741 Chowan Co. NC

Samuel Harrell b. 1700 Nansemond Co. Virgina d. 1761 Chowan Co. NC *

William Harrell b. abt. 1722 Chowan Co. NC d. 1762 Chowan Co. NC

Samuel Harrell b. abt 1752 Chowan Co. NC d. 1825 Edgecombe Co. NC

The will that Kathleen Ann Harrell posted on Samuel Harrell is posted in this book for the Samuel Harrel who died in 1761.

I think folks we have discovered a third line of Harrells originating in Virginia. I wondered why when I purchased this book that I could not figure out where my lines came in. It is a separate line. Perhaps they are related in England and wound up in proximity in the new world on purpose, but here we are. Erica Howton, can you review what I have just posted. Kathleen Ann Harrell, please review and give your thoughts. I believe we have to Thomas Harrell, the Immigrants - one to NC and one to Virginia.

Note that the dates of the above Virginia Harrells do not match the corresponding NC Harrells.

Well maybe scratch that. The Thomas the Imigrant on here is listed as moving from England to Virginia. I wish I could copy and paste what I have in this book....

There were only two Thomas Harrells in Virginia in 1704 - none listed in NC, but could have been too young. In 1715 John Harrell made a purchase of land in Perquimans Co. and he sold that land to his believed to be brother Richard in 1729. Grants were made to Several Harrells of the Upper Parish of Nansemond and in Bertie Co., NC in the 1720s.

For comparison - current tree shows on Geni

Thomas Harrell b. circa 1609 England, d. 1679 Nansemond, VA

Thomas Harrell of Chowan b. circa 1660 Nansemond, VA, d. 1721 Chowan Precinct, NC

Samuel Harrell b. circa 1680 Chowan Precinct, NC, d. 1770, Bertie Co, NC *

Will keep looking......

Okay, I slept on it. I think the current Geni tree may be missing a generation in the lineage between

Thomas Harrell, the Immigrant and the three sons listed for him with wife Ann. They are all born when Thomas and Ann would have been in their 50s ???? with circa years considered. It just seems like a missing link.

Perhaps the Thomas Harrill born about 1640 from the "Harrell Family of Eastern NC" is the missing link.

Still two Samuels to reconcile. Both with verified family. Going to look up some more wills. Hopefully something will surface.

Susanne, my thoughts exactly. There seems to be a generation missing. Also, I’m not yet sold on Harrwood being an ancestor. There was a Harrwood in the Revolutionary War, the two names do not sound similar, and the cursive d and l of the time are extremely difficult to confuse. Something to keep in mind is that Harrells were called by their middle names, probably because of how many John, Thomas, Mary, etc. there were. It was traditional to name the first born son as junior, but the first name was not reserved for direct lineage. They also passed mothers’ names to daughters and intermarried. They and their neighbors witnessed each other’s wills, so that does provide a clue to the whereabouts. My grandfather was the first in my line to move out of the area, over 200 years after John purchased the land. They were not wandering folk. Albeit, the Thomas line might have different characteristics.

I believe all the Harrell’s need to be sorted out to gain further clues to the eldest American ancestors. To me, the merging of the lines is where the confusion is. There are many documents on ancestry.com that have not been sifted through yet, so I’ve started gathering to transcribe. I will add transcriptions to the profile that best matches the document. I will add a duplicate profile when the document does not seem to coincide.

Also, what to do about family of African American descent. Perhaps, add them as brothers and sisters, add a mark such as a picture of Africa, and state which family member they moved with?

Found this -

Will of Samuel Harrell

Source Citation
Bertie County Wills, 1761-1942; Index, 1761-1961; Author: North Carolina. Superior Court (Bertie County); Probate Place: Bertie, North Carolina

Source Information
Ancestry.com. North Carolina, U.S., Wills and Probate Records, 1665-1998 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2015.

Original data: North Carolina County, District and Probate Courts.

Name Samuel Harrill
Gender Male
Residence Place Bertie, North Carolina
Will Date 19 Jan 1770
Probate Date 19 Jan 1770
Probate Place Bertie, North Carolina, USA
Inferred Death Year 1770
Inferred Death Place North Carolina, USA
Item Description Wills, Vol A-C, 1761-1784

Individuals Listed (Name) Relationship
Samuel Harrill

* Elizabeth Harrill Wife
* Rose Phelis Slave
* Pen Slave
* Lader Harrill Child
* Kazeah Bond Child
* Ann Harrill Child
* Cador Harrill Son
* Sefer Slave
* Reuben Slave
* Horse
* Young Boy (Boy)
* Kariate Bond Daughter
* Simon Slave
* Harrey Slave
* Ann Harrill Daughter
* Mingo Slave
* Abram Slave
* James Moore Friend

Kathleen Ann Harrell this can be helpful, maybe "Also, what to do about family of African American descent. Perhaps, add them as brothers and sisters, add a mark such as a picture of Africa, and state which family member they moved with?" but I think we need to get the lines sorted first. I noted above the names of a number of slaves of Samuel Harrell in his will. Their descendants may have taken the Harrell name after the war or not. We will have to find that out at some point if it intersects. That is a whole other project, I think.

Let's see if we can find where these two Samuel's go, and if we need another generation in the Geni tree. I think so, but need to find it in a third source for triangulation if possible.

This is certainly something that could be done, Erica Howton. I'v just listed a few above, but there are more throughout, I am sure. It is going to take a while to get some lines here straight.

Since their family lineage is tied to our lineage, it doesn’t make sense to work on them separately. Perhaps, I can write a program in the future that would provide a better solution to this predicament. Unfortunately, my time is already limited. If I do choose to rewrite software, then I will not be able to transcribe old documents to further progress. I will need to give this more thought.

Everyone always referred to us as the Harrell clan, not the Harrell family. I’ve never given it much thought until now. I will look further into how adopted children are blended into family trees.

Kathleen Ann Harrell, I am not sure that we can blend lineages together without proper sanctions from families. I won't be doing that as I think we need to consider a lot of factors in the situation. I do participate in several projects that Erica Howton noted and want to do more to notate African American genealogy as described by Geni protocols in the Geni Help links.

Over the years, I worked on several Native American projects such as https://www.geni.com/projects/Dimery-Settlement-Native-Americans-in..., which I created to memorialize my first cousin's wife's family. It has been well-received by many of the family members who are of the Native Peoples there. There is a secondary project with it documenting Bethel Cemetery https://www.geni.com/projects/Bethel-Cemetery-Dimery-Settlement-Gal.... Geni is a great place to work on preserving information for family, social, ethnic groups. I also shared with you the Great Dismal Swamp and Its People project. This project https://www.geni.com/projects/The-Great-Dismal-Swamp-and-Its-People... is a rich multi-ethnic group project that is very attuned to the geography and environment of the region. You can find your way on Geni, but it is a shared tree. In the meantime, I am going to work on the Harrell tree to see what I can find. It will become clear sooner or later.

Kathleen Ann Harrell, I think you have created two profiles for the same person Samuel Harrell who died in 1761 and yet have him attached to different parents.

Samuel Harrell who is attached to Thomas Harrell, of Chowan County and his wife Elizabeth Harrell

or

Samuel Harrell who is attached to John Harrell, of Nansemond County and his wife Ann Harrell as parents.

You have added the same list of children to each Samuel. Which set of parent is correct?????

I am digging through the "The Harrell Families of Early Hertford County, N.C." by Roger H. Harrell. He has pretty much created a compendium on the Harrell family of all the resources out there.

According to Roger Harrell, there were several "immigrant Harrells" not just "Thomas, the Immigrant and he notes that there is even a second "Thomas, the immigrant." From his book:

From Roger H. Harrell p. 9-10.

As I indicated above, there were several immigrants who started or ended spelling their name, Harrell The first thing to acknowledge is that not all people who ended up in America can be found on the available passenger lists For instance, there was the Thomas Harraide who is reported in the "Minuets of Council and General Court, James Crty, Virginia, 1622-29 At that place, Hugh Hayward and Robert Fitt sore they were present when the then deceased Thomas Harralde made his will, and they witnessed i t " I will call him. Immigrant No I,

If Omn's Thomas Harrwell I, came to America in 1635, and the above mentioned Thomas Harralde died here between 1622 and 1629, then we have at least two immigrant Thomases
In any case, we can consider Omn's Thomas Harrwell I as Emigrant No. 2. This was probably the same Thomas Harrwell, age 29. who was transported from London to Barbados on the Falcon, December 19,1635."

The Quit Rent Rolls for Nansemond County. Virginia co 1704 show the presence of the two Thomas Harralds—Thomas II and III (as in Orms and Elizabeth's work)

Lellie Edwards et al is pretty sure her Harrell’s descend from Samuel Harold, born around 1662 in Kent County. England But I can't find a reference for an immigrant named Samuel Harrell (using the various spellings) Similarly, William Bernard Harrell’s family Bible specifies that his Ime also descends from Samuel, born in Kent County, England in 1663, and that he was the Samuel who bought and settled the original Harrell farm in the Gales area Again, however, 1 have not found him on any passenger list, but it is hard to ignore his past presence—so I have labeled him Emigrant No* 3.

Furthermore, there is additional information indicating all Harrell’s in the area did not necessarily descend from Thomas Harrwell or Samuel Harold The following citings expand the "first American ancestor" possibilities:

Emigrant No 4 can be found in the following reference: John Jenkins 400 acres> called Egg Neck, in Northampton Co, Va 17 March 1655. p. 31 (49) for transportation of 8 persons, John Harrold, was one of them According to the Virginia County Court Note Books, a "John Harrold was a Virginia Colonist of 15 Northampton Co Va in I655." This is certainly the same fellow who was brought in March 1655 by John Jenkins.

Emigrants No 5 and No, 6 came together and in similar circumstances On October 7, 1678, several people were apprenticed in Bristol and came to Virginia Among them were Christopher Harrell apprenticed to Anthony Theiron for 8 years in Virginia; and Henry Harrell also to Thieron in Virginia, but 1 for 10 years—both came on the Victory. *
_______________________________

Hertford County is smack in the middle of "Harrell Territory" and borders the counties of:

*Southampton County, Virginia – north
*Gates County – east
*Chowan County – southeast
*Bertie County – south
*Northampton County – west

These counties were joined in various configurations at times.

Continued from Roger H. Harrill:

Emigrant No 7 Thos. Ivey on April 8, 1711 patented 374 acres m Princess Anne Co Va. for bringing 8 settlers " They included Garratt Harrell.

_______________________________________________
In any case, there were at least seven different Harrells who arrived on this continent by 1711 There were, in fact, others who continued to arrive in America after the Harrells started to move south into North Carolina In 1730. Thomas Harrold, age 18, apprenticed to work 6 years in Pennsylvania, and in 1734. Robert Harold, 'Sentenced to transportation and reprieved for transportation Summer 1734 Suffolk The 1730 and 1734 immigrants arrived after Harrells had already begun to move into North Carolina—so they are not good candidates for the Harrell lines in Nansemond. County Va who moved down to the North Carolina area in and before the 1720s, but they could have moved down in the 1740s or later

As I have made clear, I am not inclined to assume all Harrells who passed through or settled in North Carolina descend from Thomas or Samuel in particular, I find it hard to dismiss the 1678 immigrants. Christopher and Henry (who appear together as witnesses on a deed in Bertie County in 1741), or even the 1711 immigrant. Garratt Harrell. who must also be considered a possible ancestor to at least one of us. We need to also keep in mind that the Harrell lines in early Bertie and Hertford Counties used name John in nearly every generation. So, the John Harrold who arrived in Northampton, Va in 1655 may have been the immigrant ancestor to at least some of the Harrell lines.

So to break it down - Roger Harrell has found (or pulled together the research on the following "Immigrant Harrells"

Thomas Harralde, the Immigrant I - made a will before 1622 - 29

Thomas Harrwell, the Immigrant II - came to America in 1635

Samuel Harold, of Kent and Gates County, NC, Immigrant III

John Harrold of Northampton, VA, Immigrant IV (1655)

Christopher Harrell (1678 on the Victory) to VA, Immigrant V

Henry Harrell (1678 on the Victory) to VA , Immigrant VI

Garrett Harrell of Princess Anne County, VA, Immigrant VII

There is a long and detailed description of Richard Harrell, the Immigrant on his profile from Wikitree not noted on Roger Harrell's list, so I think he be can be established as

Richard Harrell, the Immigrant, VIII

The Thomas Harrwell noted above is Thomas Harrell, the Immigrant

I'd like to find a way to identify these profiles of the "Harrell Immigrants" and work from there. What do you think, Erica Howton? It is a long-term project, but hopefully there is some infrastructure already.

I am also working on the two Samuel's question as I read through this. Maybe getting some clarity.

Sounds like a plan. I think I can draw it out. It would be a sub-project of the Harrell family project.

Let me see if I can create a diagram.

This is a lot to read and the multiple threads are extremely confusing. I am walking out the door, but want to quickly address Samuel. My original tree, prior to merge, had Samuel in the John line. This was due to the fact that I do not have documents that enlighten me to the parents of Harrells this far up the line. I stated that I, too, was entering into the guessing game at that time. I also had an additional generation of John that I figured due to clues within documents. Shortly afterwards, my tree changed. I believe Erica had merged my tree. I thought that this removed entries, and since Samuel was stated to be from Chowan, I placed his as a duplicate under the Chowan line, as stated to managers of said Chowan entry. I am new to this site and have never worked on lineage before. This is extremely confusing and I am having difficulty matching documents such as will and testaments to the entries currently present. I might start a new project under a different email, so that I can base the tree that I am working on solely on documents with noted opinions in the description.

A note, the names of immigrants coming through New York were understandably mistaken. I’m not so sure about those coming in through Virginia. Too many were educated in reading and writing, and there were not droves from all over Europe. I did find a discrepancy in my line and entered the birth name of parent with change in alternate name.

Kathleen Ann Harrell, please do not do this "I might start a new project under a different email, so that I can base the tree that I am working on solely on documents with noted opinions in the description."

Geni is a "SHARED TREE". We have to collaborate on the profiles to make this work. We don't guess about where profiles go for the most part - we try to have facts and/or some sense of an idea of what the connection could be caused by such as location, time, etc. Please do not add another line that is a duplicate line of what already exists. A curator will just have to isolate it for deletion if that happens.

"Multiple threads" are confusing. That is what we are here to sort out on Geni. It isn't easy and the information from Roger Harrell will give us a guide, but we have to wade through a lot of wills, census data, and land grants and sales. This is a huge undertaking. Not for the faint of heart. We are constantly triangulating information to find the answers.

Up until recently, we thought we had two lines straight. Now we know there are many more and we have to back up and start untangling again. Genealogy this far back can get that way. We post a lot of information in these discussions so it is readily available for everyone and we can easily come back to it. Sometimes it is our "thinking out loud" too.

We are ok. I have to teach a class now.

I am trying to figure out how to isolate my research to make it easier for me to put the pieces together. It is difficult to do when I do not have my own board that I can work with, as there are too many missing pieces in the current puzzle of a tree and nowhere to place unknowns for sorting. I’m not against a shared tree and open collaboration, however, it doesn’t make sense for where I am in the research phase. I hate to say this, but it looks as though a narrative was already written for the shared tree, and I am still searching for clues to either verify that narrative or opine my own. This is my direct lineage. It is far more personal to me, which means that I am far more willing to spend the time sorting it out. I can attempt my work offline.

Kathleen Ann Harrell, you might try working on My Heritage, which is affiliated with Geni and where you can set up your own tree in isolation. Some find that works best for them. I started there and then moved over to Geni and now work back and forth between the two to some extent. Though most of my lines on My Heritage are not nearly as sourced out now. I prefer the shared tree here.

It may be that would work for you. Wishing you the very best on this and you can always stay involved here and monitor the discussions. We are going to be working on this a long time, for sure. Just this "new info" on the multiple immigrants is going to be a game changer for many lines.

Additional interesting source found:

http://www.harrelld.freeservers.com/custom.html

Also project started for early Harrell immigrants:

https://www.geni.com/projects/Early-Harrells-in-America/4501512