Persons who have not been online for a year (Abandoned Trees)

Private User Erica Howton WE know how to turn off the emails. The problem is getting all the replies also.
Turning off emails is probably one big cause of unanswered merge requests.

Eldon but that's OK too. It's a bit of Fred's point really. I have relatives - their tree is done. It's brick walls to Europe and any new news such as a wedding or birth is when they'll sign on & update, see anything then. It's a common enough name so "tree matches" won't help & anyway they'll catch them for the wedding sign on. No reason not to control their experience. Geni does allow for it.

Just an addition to my opinion. The big problem with Big Tree profiles is that anybody can remove and/or change the data on it, with you receive a notification or email. Even in the case of a merge all data can be changed to the new data of the primary profile without the possibility of adding back via revisions.

This issue highlights basic concern --- the different perceptions of genealogy purpose. Some pple see it in more narrow terms others in more global, collaborative terms.

Agree, that Geni should move towards more collaborative forum...if pple are not comfortable with such approach then they should not use Geni.

Buy personal software, but their narrow interests is causing much confusion.

Ailene - do be aware - it was GENI that pitched their product at folks for personal trees!! With such comments as: Scrapbook your whole family on Geni, only your family can see your tree, private to just your family, etc. To now insist they leave all the info they put up for one purpose so Geni can use it for some completely different purpose that they did not agree to seems wrong to me.

Lois everything evolves and grows and FYI, when I joined in 2007, PRE go live, it was explicitly to build and collaborate on a World Tree, not about sharing only my near family info - even then we had a Facebook group and Ancestry tree for that. So perhaps different folk read the same offer differently?

Even if I only collaborating with family members we may have differences of opinion, interpretations of facts, typing skills, etc. If I want "my" tree, "my" way, that's on my desktop, personal site, or whatever.

The moment you're in a collaborative tree you're sharing and perhaps compromising. So -Geni for collaborating, which needs to include some tolerance for error correction, redundancy, varying interests and focal points ... And an evolving product and service.

Erica - how does it happen you joined "PRE go live"? Were you working for Geni then, or did they recruit folks from some active group or ?? I had thought folks could not join until they went live - thought that was what going live meant. (Feel free to put in link to separate discussion for answer, if it seems inappropriate to this thread).

For quite I have been following news clips from Geni and other services I use. So I give you this quote on Geni and MH:
“What we’ve learned over the years building Geni is that there are three key assets that customers want in the genealogy space: records, PRIVATE TREES*, and the world family tree. This deal brings together all of these pieces to form the most complete offering in the genealogy space. Together with MyHeritage, we look forward to continuing Geni’s mission of connecting humanity through a single family tree”.
Founder of Geni.com David Sacks.
Looks like private trees are important and from what I have seen in the demographics Geni and MH appear to compliment each other. David Sachs is also now on the board of MH (Go figure)......ttfn

*Highlighted by FN Duck

Lois

First - i don't work for Geni. I'm a customer like everyone else except the double handful of Geni employees who now work for MyHeritage. And actually I believe all of them have Geni trees, as it's a requirement to have "the genealogy bug" yourself.

In 2007, before Geni opened, they "teased" with internet ads, including "put your name on this list, we'll contact you when we open the doors.". And so I did ... and so they did.

Yes FNDuck, i agree with your reading of the news announcement and your assessment of the "fit" in products and services.

Erica - Thanks for the info. ( I did understand that you were not working for Geni now - did not mean any offense by asking if you might have worked for them in the past). I did not know about the teaser ads on the internet before they opened the doors. Interesting. If anyone has a copy of one or more of them I would be interested in seeing.

The first mention I saw about Geni: http://magazine.uchicago.edu/07910/features/take2.shtml quotes the same David Sacks that FnDuck mentions above: “The site maintains security by letting users choose whom to invite into the tree. No one but invited family members can see it, and as each family becomes invested in the site and its accuracy, it has the potential to become a venue for family announcements, birthday reminders, and baby photos.”
-- and also
“ “We want to be the repository of all your family’s information,” he says...."

I think for a long time Geni not only believed that there was no conflict between the goals/aspects of Private Trees and the World Family Tree but, in fact, believed instead that it was by encouraging folks to create their Family Trees on Geni (complete with lots of privately shared info) that the World Tree would be seeded and created(ie by some of them building way back, and some inviting relatives who then extended the tree horizontally and invited others who continued that process).

There's a David Sacks interview from 2008? explaining his concept and he does contradict himself a couple of times, which is fine by me, because how can you lay out all the unknowns? You have an idea, you get it out there, you try this and that, you work with great people.

Lois I know you like "accountability" for every word written or uttered. To me that's antithetical to creativity (creativity being another word for copying - badly - and making something new - by accident - and then saying --- "yeah, that's what I meant all along!!)

The interview was published in the Sept/Oct 2007 issue, so not a 2008 one. (Just in case it matters at all) I seem to keep missing whatever contradictions you are referring to - feel free to enlighten.

You trust my memory? Dang, I don't trust 5 minutes ago ...

Lois you seem to have a "thing" about the "Promise of the family tree" versus "the world family tree."

Someone mentioned a factoid i didn't know - an original name thought of for Geni was "Geni - pedia" - in other words, wikipedia of genealogy. (glad that got shortened!)

But to me, since 2007 and the first "teaser" ad, it's been really clear - share your family information with family AND build the world family tree, because everyone is connected.

At the time I was studying network theory as it applies in social psychology, so this was particularly interesting to me. What and who are the "gateways?".

All very Malcolm Gladwell ...

http://www.gladwell.com/tippingpoint/index.html

I remember reading that book, and finding it very interesting. Definitely might explain what Geni thought was going to happen. Thanks much!

Private User - can you provide a link to where you found your quote above? I know I read it, or something like it, but am failing to find. Would much appreciate.

Am taking this diversion here: http://www.geni.com/discussions/98590?msg=837864

What geni probably should have done was create two option when someone started a tree. Totally private that they only can add and see what is there, and the contents of the tree cannot be merged with other trees or viewed by anyone else, not in the name index. The other option would be totally public, with minimal restrictions. A tree could be converted from private to public, but once done could not go back.

Well...... hinesight is 20/10.

Howard Eichenwald, that would only work if you could also not even INVITE anyone to join your tree (because then it becomes their tree as much as yours). So what would be the point of having it online? The only one I can think of is having it accessible to you from anywhere.

Seems to me this issue should not even be an issue.
1) Geni is a Collaborative site- if your not willing to learn and share-Do Not Join.
2) a merge correctly done can enhance and benefit Everyone involved
3) if the merge turns out to be incorrect, fix it-together-or have a Curator correct it- Correct Citations are very meaningful.
4) all merges should be an Automatic event.-The mergers profiles remain private if they choose and the mergee`s private likewise.
5) A merge should not set for all eternity, with that ugly blue circle hanging onto it, just because someone is not active within our Geni community.

V - Geni still does not have an undo function for merges. Not even one that Curators can use. Nor does Geni show the revision history of the non-primary version of the Profile, once two have been merged. This means there may well be be no way to "fix it" - neither to how it was before nor to what is correct - if a merge is done which should not have been done.

Re

5) A merge should not set for all eternity, with that ugly blue circle hanging onto it, just because someone is not active within our Geni community.

Technically this is a "proposed merge" and not a "completed merge.". The other side manager may:

- be in an "isolated tree". Send a collaboration request IN ADDITION to the merge request.

- have "abandoned" their tree. Use "report" from the Actions menu to release the profile.

- not be checking their merge center (that is, unfamiliar with the Geni interface). Send a specific mail introducing yourself and calling attention to the match.

- put a "follow" on them. They may find this creepy (grin) but it let's you jump on them when they're on line.

I have had success in getting pending merges done using these methods, the collaboration requests most of all. And to great benefit in finding new family branches for both of us.

Erica, - how about when you ask that the profiles be released, and there is no one on the tree to whom the profiles can be released? I have already run into this situation where someone set up a tree and did not invite anyone to the tree, and all profiles are "locked up". The person could not only abandoned their tree, but changed their e-mail address too.

Same procedure of reporting abandoned tree from the manager's profile. Customer service takes it from there.

re: Same procedure of reporting abandoned tree from the manager's profile. Customer service takes it from there.

I've done that, but the profiles were not released.

Probably in their Que of work to do, Howard.

They changed policy a long time ago so when there is no one in the Tree to whom profiles can be released, they are no longer released. This protects folks who are dealing with a spouse dying of cancer (true reason according to posts I read for someone being absent from Geni for a year or two) or those who created it for their children to see when said children are grown and feel no need to work on any longer now, or any for other reason are expecting their Tree to be there when they return.

http://help.geni.com/entries/20475503-what-is-an-abandoned-tree
"If a close relative cannot be found, then management of these private profiles will not change"

I think that may depend on how historic the profile is? I do see "released" historic profiles available for re- managing (or merging).

Howard when in doubt open a Customer Support ticket

http://help.geni.com/

Another way this problem is created:
http://help.geni.com/entries/22622242-how-can-i-remove-my-family-in...

In my opinion, would be nice if persons in this situation could have their trees deleted now. Definitely do not believe that just because they failed to notice that option (to have them deleted) at the time they closed their account that therefore anyone who chooses should be able to force merges, access the info, etc. But I suspect I may be in the minority here.

If someone builds a tree for their kids and does not let anyone into the tree and they die, no one will ever get to see the tree.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Not everyone who leaves Geni closes their account or has the tree deleted.

I have reported several trees as abandoned, and only one was given to another person to allow merges etc...

If the tree is not abandoned or can't find a close relative, does Geni let you know? I've never gotten any feedback except that Geni was looking at the tree.

Howard Eichenwald At the present time, Geni does not let you know. I gave asked for this feature several times. I haven't even been receiving notifications for weeks.