Aldana

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Aldana

French: Aude
Also Known As: "Adalne", "Aida", "Aldana", "Aldane", "Auda", "Aude", "Aude of Toulouse"
Birthdate:
Death:
Place of Burial: Metz, Département de la Moselle, Region Lorraine, France
Immediate Family:

Wife of Thierry I, count of Autun
Mother of Teudoin, Comte d'Autun; Adalehelm d'Autun; Unk; St. William of Gellone, count of Toulouse; Abba "Albana" and 2 others

Occupation: Abbess at Chelles Abbey, Prinsesse af Frankrig
Managed by: Private User
Last Updated:

About Aldana

From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy page (including his parents and brother's family): http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKISH%20NOBILITY.htm#TheodericIAutundiedbefore804 & http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/burgdautun.htm

THEODERIC' [I], son of --- (-[791/15 Dec 804]). The origin of Comte Theoderic is not known. An interesting speculation is a relationship with the early Saxon leader Widukind, as explained above. Comte d'Autun. Einhard indicates that Theoderich was related to Charles I King of the Franks when he records that in 782 the king sent his three missi "Adalgiso camerario et Geilone comite stabuli et Worado comite palati" to meet "in…Saxonis…Theodericus comes, propinquus regis"[411], the relationship probably being through the wife of Theoderic [I] (see below). "Carolus…rex Francorum et Langobardorum" gave a judgment by charter dated to [Dec 775] which names "fidelibus…Widrigo, Odrigo, Theodrico, Bernehardo, Albuino, Aginhardo, Berngario comitibus et Anshelmo comite palacii nostri"[412]. Einhard records that Charles I King of the Franks sent "Theodorico comite et Meginfredo camerario suo" to "aquilonalem Danubii ripam" in 791[413]. "Willelmus…comes" names "genitore meo Theuderico et genitrice mea Aldana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[414].

m ALDANA, daughter of ---. "Willelmus…comes" names "genitore meo Theuderico et genitrice mea Aldana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[415]. Settipani quotes an Aquitaine necrology which lists "Willelmus…pater eius Theodericus, mater Aldana soror Hiltrudis et Landradæ"[416]. He suggests that "Hiltrudis" was the wife of Odilo Duke of Bavaria, and therefore that the wife of Theoderic was Aldana, daughter of Charles "Martel" maiordomus of Austrasia and Neustria [Carolingian]. The theory is attractive but not conclusive, as its validity depends on there being no other contemporary Hiltrudis, which is not provable. Hlawitschka highlights the case against the affiliation[417]. However, the evidence of the 25 May 765 charter, quoted in the document MEROVINGIAN NOBILITY under Aldana’s supposed sister Landrada, suggests that Settipani’s hypothesis may be correct. In addition, Einhard indicates that Theoderic [I] was related to Charles I King of the Franks when he records that in 782 King Charles sent his three missi "Adalgiso camerario et Geilone comite stabuli et Worado comite palati" to meet "in…Saxonis…Theodericus comes, propinquus regis"[418]. One possible relationship being between the king and Theoderic [I] would have been through his wife, if she had been the king's paternal aunt.

Theoderic [I] & his wife had [seven] children:

1. TEUDOIN (-826 or after). "Willelmus…comes" names "fratribus meis Theudoino et Adalelmo" (version two: "fratre meo Teodoino et Teoderico et Adalelmo") in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[419]. Comte d'Autun 804/26. m ---. The name of the wife of Teudoin is not known.

a) THEODERIC [III] (-[after 826]). 816/21. Theoderic is named as son of Teudoin in Europäische Stammtafeln[420] but the primary source on which this is based has not been identified. The Manual of Dhuoda names "domnus Teodericus…condam" as godfather of Doda's son Bernard (born in 826), although it does not specify a family relationship between the two[421]. Of the three possible individuals in the family named Theoderic, Theoderic [II] is a less likely possibility because of his presumed age. Theoderic [IV] is named in another section of the Manual, without any reference to his being Bernard's godfather. Theoderic [III] therefore appears the most likely possibility.

2. THEODERIC [II] (-after 14 Dec 804, maybe after 811). "Willelmus…comes" names "fratribus meis Theudoino et Adalelmo" (version two: "fratre meo Teodoino et Teoderico et Adalelmo") in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone, Theoderic being named in only one of the versions365. [Einhard's Annales record "Theotheri comes" as one of the signatories of peace with the Vikings in 811[422]. It is not certain that the signatory was Theoderic [II].]

3. ADALELM . "Willelmus…comes" names "fratribus meis Theudoino et Adalelmo" (version two: "fratre meo Teodoino et Teoderico et Adalelmo") in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone365.

4. NN [--- . m ---.] One possible child:

a) [BERTRAND . "Willelmus…comes" names "nepote meo Bertranno" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone365. There is no more precise indication of the relationship between Guillaume and Bertrand although, if nepos is in this context correctly translated as nephew, Bertrand must have been the son of a brother or sister of Guillaume who is not otherwise named in the charter, presumably deceased at the time.]

5. GUILLAUME ([750/55]-Gellone [28 May [812/13]/21 May 815]). Comte de Toulouse, Marquis de Septimanie. "Willelmus…comes" names "genitore meo Theuderico et genitrice mea Aldana" and "fratribus meis Theudoino et Adalelmo" (version two: "fratre meo Teodoino et Teoderico et Adalelmo") "sororibus meis Albana et Bertana" "filiabus meis et filiis Barnardo, Witchario, Gotcelmo, Helimbruch" (version two: "filios meos et filias Witcario, Hildehelmo et Helinbruch") "uxoribus meis Cunegunde et Guitburge" (version two: "Witburg et Cunegunde") "nepote meo Bertranno" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[423].

- see below.

6. ABBA[Albana] (-after 804). "Willelmus…comes" names "sororibus meis Albana et Bertana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[424]. The Vita S. Willelmi records that “beatus Willelmus” had “duæ sorores virgines…Albana…Bertana”[425]. Nun in 804. [m NIBELUNG [II], son of [NIBELUNG [I] Count in Burgundy & his wife --- (-after 805). Settipani highlights the onomastic connections between the family of St Guillaume and the family of Nibelung, suggested by the names Bernard and Theoderic borne by the possible descendants of Nibelung [II][426]. He suggests that, if there was a connection between the two families, it would most likely have been through the wife of Nibelung [II] who could have been either Abba or Berta, sisters of St Guillaume. There is, however, no indication at all of the first name of the wife of Nibelung [II]. This would of course be incorrect if the connection was through either Abba's father or mother, as referred to above. The other difficulty with this hypothesis is that the Vita S. Willelmi implies that Guillaume’s sisters remained unmarried when it records that he had “duæ sorores virgines…Albana…Bertana”[427].]

7. BERTA [Bertana]. "Willelmus…comes" names "sororibus meis Albana et Bertana" in his charter dated 14 Dec 804 (version two: dated 15 Dec 804) for the foundation of the monastery of Gellone[428].


From the French Wikipedia page on Aude de France:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aude_de_France

Aude, Aida, Alda, Aldana ou Adalne (732-après 755?) est fille naturelle de Charles Martel et probablement de Rotrude et la mère de saint Guillaume de Gellone.

Mariage et enfants

Elle est mariée à Thierry Ier, comte d'Autun cité en 742 et en 750, fils de Théoderic, comte, et descendant de Bertrade de Prüm. De ce mariage sont nés :

1. Theodoen (ou Teudoin) († ap.826), comte d'Autun, cité en 804[1]

2. Thierry, cité en 782[2],[3] et en 804[1].

3. Alleaume (ou Adalhelm)[2],[1].

4. Guillaume (ou Guilhem)[2],[3], comte de Toulouse et fondateur, en 804, de l'abbaye de Saint-Guilhem-le-Désert. Bien plus tard (vers le XIIe siècle), ce dernier sera renommé Guillaume d’Orange dans un des grands cycles épiques du Moyen Age.

5. Abba et Berta, citées comme religieuse en 804. L'une d'elles a probablement épousé un Nibelungide, Childebrand II ou Nibelung II[4].

Une filiation mise en doute

Les seules informations relatives à sa filiation sont[5] :

1. un nécrologue aquitain, cité par dom Jean Mabillon qui précise qu'Alda, mère de saint Guillaume, est la sœur d'Hiltrude et de Landrada.

2. Eginhard parle de Thierry II, comte d'Autun, et le qualifie de parent de Charlemagne

3. en 840, Thégan, dans la Vita Hludowici, parle de Bernard, fils de Guillaume de Gellone et indique qu'il est « de souche royale ».

La plupart des historiens identifient Hiltrude, sœur d'Alda, à Hiltrude, épouse du duc Odilon de Bavière, et fille de Charles Martel et de Rotrude, et considèrent Alda et Landrada comme des filles de ces derniers. Du point de vue onomastique, Landrada peut être rapprochée de Landrada, mère de saint Chrodegang et proche parente de Rotrude.

Cependant l'historien allemand Eduard Hlawitschka a contesté cette construction généalogique en 1965[6],[7] en avançant les arguments suivants :

des trois sœurs, seule Hiltrude est mentionnée comme fille de Charles Martel par une source contemporaine, Landrada n'étant citée que par une vie tardive de saint Chrodegang, qui la mentionne comme mère du saint et fille de Charles, ce qui est chronologiquement possible.

Un petit fils de Charles Martel, le duc Wala, épouse une petite-fille d'Alda, et il s'étonne que les autorités religieuses ne se soient pas opposées au mariage en raison de la consanguinité.

Il trouve surprenant que le nécrologue ne mentionne pas qu'Alda était sœur de Pépin le Bref.

Enfin, il explique que la référence à la « souche royale » est explicable par le fait que Thierry Ier d'Autun, descendant de Bertrade de Prüm, est issu des Mérovingiens et apparenté à Bertrade de Laon, petite fille de Bertrade de Prüm et mère de Charlemagne.

Diversement suivie, sa démonstration n'apparaît pas comme vraiment concluante[8] :

La mention du passage erroné présentant Landrada comme mère de saint Chrodegang et fille de Charles Martel vient sûrement d'une confusion entre Landrada, mère de saint Chrodegang, et une autre Landrada, fille de Charles Martel, ce qui milite en faveur de l'existence d'une fille de Charles Martel de ce nom.

À l'époque des Carolingiens, le mariage n'est pas encore un sacrement religieux, mais seulement un acte civil, et de nombreux exemples montrent que les empêchements dus à une consanguinité n'étaient pas encore respectés.

On a d'autre exemples de chartes présentant des parents proches des rois carolingiens et pour lesquels la parenté avec les rois n'est pas mentionnée. D'autre part, Hiltrude était alors en mauvais termes avec Pépin le Bref et Carloman, et ses sœurs ont peut-être partagé cette opposition.

Enfin « de souche royale » signifie être issu d'une famille royale (mérovingienne ou carolingienne), ce qui exclu le cousinage par Bertrade de Prüm, et il ne devait alors (sous le règne de Louis le Pieux) pas être de bon ton de rappeler une parenté avec l'ancienne dynastie.

Ces arguments renforcent donc la filiation d'Alda.

Notes et références

1.↑ a, b et c Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [archive].

2.↑ a, b et c Riché 1983, p. 369, tab. XXIII.

3.↑ a et b Settipani 1993, p. 174-6.

4.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 344-5.

5.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 173-4.

6.↑ Hlawitschka 1965, p. 76-8.

7.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 174.

8.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 175-6.

Bibliographie

Pierre Riché, Les Carolingiens, une famille qui fit l'Europe, Hachette, coll. « Pluriel », Paris, 1983 (réimpr. 1997), 490 p. (ISBN 2-01-278851-3), p. 138, 143, 191 et tableaux généalogiques III et XXIII .

Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4), p. 173-6

Eduard Hlawitschka, Die Vorfahren Karls des Großen, éd. H Beumann, Düsseldorf, 1965, p. 76-8

In English:

Aude (Aida, Alda, Aldana, or Adalne, 732-after 755) is the illegitimate daughter of Charles Martel ("The Hammer"), and probably Rotunde, the mother of St. Gillaume de Gellone.

Marriage and Children:

She was married to Thierry I, Comte d'Autun, cited in 742 and in 750, as the son of Theoderic, a count and descendant of Bertrade de Prum. From their marriage, they had:

1. Theodoen (or Teudoin), d. c. 826, Comte d'Autun, cited in 804.

2. Thierry, cited in 782 and in 84

3. Alleaume (or Adalhelm)

4. Guillaume (or Guilhelm), Comte de Toulouse and founder in 804 of the Abbey de St-Guilhelm-le-Desert. Much later (around the 12th century), the abbey will be renamed for William of Orange in the major epic cycles of the Middle Ages.

5. Abba and Berta, cited as nuns in 804. One of them probably married into the Nibelungids, to either Childebrand II or Nibelung II.

Parentage questioned

The only information about her parentage includes:

1. the necrology of Aquitaine cited by Dom Jean Mabillon, which states that Aldi, mother of St. Guillaume, is the sister of Hiltrude and Landrade.

2. Eginhard writing of Thierry II, Comte d'Autun, who calls him a relative of Charlemagne.

3. In 840, Thegan, in the "Vita Hludowici," writes of Bernard, son of Guillaume de Gellone and indicating that he is of "royal stock."

Most historians identify Hiltrude, sister of Alda, to Hiltrude, wife of Duke Odilon de Baviere, and daughter of Charles Martel and Rotrude, and consider Alda and Landrade to be his daughters. From the persepective of onomastics, Landrade can be compared to Landrade, mother of St. Chodegang, and close relative of Rotrude.

However, German historian Eduard Hlawitschka challenged this genealogical construction in 1965 by arguing the following:

1. three sisters, one of which is Hiltrude, are mentioned as daughters of Charles Martel by a contemporary source, and Landrade being cited by a life story of St. Chrodegang, mentioning her as a mother and daughter of St. Charles, which is chronologically impossible.

2. a young son of Charles Martel, the Duke Wala, married a granddaughter of Alda, and he was surprised that the religious authorities were not opposed to the marriage because of cosanguinity.

3. It is surprising that no mention is made in the necrology that Aldi is the sister of Pepin.

4. Finally, he explained that the reference to "royal stock" is explained by the fact that Thierry I Autun, a descendent of Bertrade Prum, is based on his relation to the Merovingians, and apparently to Bertrade de Laon, granddaughter of Bertrade Prum and mother of Charlemagne.

These arguments are not really conclusive as:

1. The mention of the erroneous passages with Landrade as mother and daughter of Chrodegang St. Charles Martel is surely a confusion between Ladrade, mother of St. Chrodegang, and another Landrade, daughter of Charles Martel, which is an argument for the existence of a daughter of Charles Martel of the same name.

2. At the time of the Carolingians, marriage was not a religious sacrament, but only a civil act, and many examples show that the impediments caused by inbreeding were not respected.

3. There were other examples of charters with close relatives of the Carolingian kings and for which the relationship with the kings are not mentioned. On the other hand, Hiltrude was then on bad terms with Pepin the Short and Carloman, and her sisters may have shared a bad opinion of her.

4. Finally, "of royal stock" means being born into a royal family (Merovingian or Carolingian), which excludes the cousins of Bertrade Prum, and it was then (during the reign of Louis the Pious) not fashionable to recall a kinship with an ancient dynasty.

These arguments strengthen the case for the parentage of Alda.


William of Gellone

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

William was born in northern France in the mid-8th century. He was a cousin of Charlemagne (his mother Aldana was daughter of Charles Martel) and the son of Thierry IV, Count of Autun and Toulouse.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisela


Gisela (757 – 810) was the daughter of Pepin the Short and his wife Bertrada of Laon. She was the sister of Charlemagne and Carloman. Charlemagne's biographer Einhard states that Gisela had been dedicated to religion since her childhood. She became a nun at Chelles Abbey, where she was eventually made abbess.

As the abbess at Chelles Abbey, Gisela oversaw one of the most prolific nuns' scriptoria active in the 8th and 9th centuries. According to Einhard she had good relations with her brother Charlemagne, who "treated her with the same respect which he showed his mother." She died in 810 at the convent she had served for most of her life.

Charlemagne and his wife Hildegard named their daughter after Gisela. Gisela the Younger may have lived from 781 to 808, but little else is known of her life.


See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p69.htm#i9078 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm )


http://www.our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p328.htm#i9848


From the French Wikipedia page on Aude de France:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aude_de_France

Aude, Aida, Alda, Aldana ou Adalne (732-après 755?) est fille naturelle de Charles Martel et probablement de Rotrude et la mère de saint Guillaume de Gellone.

Mariage et enfants

Elle est mariée à Thierry Ier, comte d'Autun cité en 742 et en 750, fils de Théoderic, comte, et descendant de Bertrade de Prüm. De ce mariage sont nés :

1. Theodoen (ou Teudoin) († ap.826), comte d'Autun, cité en 804[1]

2. Thierry, cité en 782[2],[3] et en 804[1].

3. Alleaume (ou Adalhelm)[2],[1].

4. Guillaume (ou Guilhem)[2],[3], comte de Toulouse et fondateur, en 804, de l'abbaye de Saint-Guilhem-le-Désert. Bien plus tard (vers le XIIe siècle), ce dernier sera renommé Guillaume d’Orange dans un des grands cycles épiques du Moyen Age.

5. Abba et Berta, citées comme religieuse en 804. L'une d'elles a probablement épousé un Nibelungide, Childebrand II ou Nibelung II[4].

Une filiation mise en doute

Les seules informations relatives à sa filiation sont[5] :

1. un nécrologue aquitain, cité par dom Jean Mabillon qui précise qu'Alda, mère de saint Guillaume, est la sœur d'Hiltrude et de Landrada.

2. Eginhard parle de Thierry II, comte d'Autun, et le qualifie de parent de Charlemagne

3. en 840, Thégan, dans la Vita Hludowici, parle de Bernard, fils de Guillaume de Gellone et indique qu'il est « de souche royale ».

La plupart des historiens identifient Hiltrude, sœur d'Alda, à Hiltrude, épouse du duc Odilon de Bavière, et fille de Charles Martel et de Rotrude, et considèrent Alda et Landrada comme des filles de ces derniers. Du point de vue onomastique, Landrada peut être rapprochée de Landrada, mère de saint Chrodegang et proche parente de Rotrude.

Cependant l'historien allemand Eduard Hlawitschka a contesté cette construction généalogique en 1965[6],[7] en avançant les arguments suivants :

des trois sœurs, seule Hiltrude est mentionnée comme fille de Charles Martel par une source contemporaine, Landrada n'étant citée que par une vie tardive de saint Chrodegang, qui la mentionne comme mère du saint et fille de Charles, ce qui est chronologiquement possible.

Un petit fils de Charles Martel, le duc Wala, épouse une petite-fille d'Alda, et il s'étonne que les autorités religieuses ne se soient pas opposées au mariage en raison de la consanguinité.

Il trouve surprenant que le nécrologue ne mentionne pas qu'Alda était sœur de Pépin le Bref.

Enfin, il explique que la référence à la « souche royale » est explicable par le fait que Thierry Ier d'Autun, descendant de Bertrade de Prüm, est issu des Mérovingiens et apparenté à Bertrade de Laon, petite fille de Bertrade de Prüm et mère de Charlemagne.

Diversement suivie, sa démonstration n'apparaît pas comme vraiment concluante[8] :

La mention du passage erroné présentant Landrada comme mère de saint Chrodegang et fille de Charles Martel vient sûrement d'une confusion entre Landrada, mère de saint Chrodegang, et une autre Landrada, fille de Charles Martel, ce qui milite en faveur de l'existence d'une fille de Charles Martel de ce nom.

À l'époque des Carolingiens, le mariage n'est pas encore un sacrement religieux, mais seulement un acte civil, et de nombreux exemples montrent que les empêchements dus à une consanguinité n'étaient pas encore respectés.

On a d'autre exemples de chartes présentant des parents proches des rois carolingiens et pour lesquels la parenté avec les rois n'est pas mentionnée. D'autre part, Hiltrude était alors en mauvais termes avec Pépin le Bref et Carloman, et ses sœurs ont peut-être partagé cette opposition.

Enfin « de souche royale » signifie être issu d'une famille royale (mérovingienne ou carolingienne), ce qui exclu le cousinage par Bertrade de Prüm, et il ne devait alors (sous le règne de Louis le Pieux) pas être de bon ton de rappeler une parenté avec l'ancienne dynastie.

Ces arguments renforcent donc la filiation d'Alda.

Notes et références

1.↑ a, b et c Foundation for Medieval Genealogy [archive].

2.↑ a, b et c Riché 1983, p. 369, tab. XXIII.

3.↑ a et b Settipani 1993, p. 174-6.

4.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 344-5.

5.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 173-4.

6.↑ Hlawitschka 1965, p. 76-8.

7.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 174.

8.↑ Settipani 1993, p. 175-6.

Bibliographie

Pierre Riché, Les Carolingiens, une famille qui fit l'Europe, Hachette, coll. « Pluriel », Paris, 1983 (réimpr. 1997), 490 p. (ISBN 2-01-278851-3), p. 138, 143, 191 et tableaux généalogiques III et XXIII .

Christian Settipani, La Préhistoire des Capétiens (Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste maison de France, vol. 1), éd. Patrick van Kerrebrouck, 1993 (ISBN 2-9501509-3-4), p. 173-6

Eduard Hlawitschka, Die Vorfahren Karls des Großen, éd. H Beumann, Düsseldorf, 1965, p. 76-8

In English:

Aude (Aida, Alda, Aldana, or Adalne, 732-after 755) is the illegitimate daughter of Charles Martel ("The Hammer"), and probably Rotunde, the mother of St. Gillaume de Gellone.

Marriage and Children:

She was married to Thierry I, Comte d'Autun, cited in 742 and in 750, as the son of Theoderic, a count and descendant of Bertrade de Prum. From their marriage, they had:

1. Theodoen (or Teudoin), d. c. 826, Comte d'Autun, cited in 804.

2. Thierry, cited in 782 and in 84

3. Alleaume (or Adalhelm)

4. Guillaume (or Guilhelm), Comte de Toulouse and founder in 804 of the Abbey de St-Guilhelm-le-Desert. Much later (around the 12th century), the abbey will be renamed for William of Orange in the major epic cycles of the Middle Ages.

5. Abba and Berta, cited as nuns in 804. One of them probably married into the Nibelungids, to either Childebrand II or Nibelung II.

Parentage questioned

The only information about her parentage includes:

1. the necrology of Aquitaine cited by Dom Jean Mabillon, which states that Aldi, mother of St. Guillaume, is the sister of Hiltrude and Landrade.

2. Eginhard writing of Thierry II, Comte d'Autun, who calls him a relative of Charlemagne.

3. In 840, Thegan, in the "Vita Hludowici," writes of Bernard, son of Guillaume de Gellone and indicating that he is of "royal stock."

Most historians identify Hiltrude, sister of Alda, to Hiltrude, wife of Duke Odilon de Baviere, and daughter of Charles Martel and Rotrude, and consider Alda and Landrade to be his daughters. From the persepective of onomastics, Landrade can be compared to Landrade, mother of St. Chodegang, and close relative of Rotrude.

However, German historian Eduard Hlawitschka challenged this genealogical construction in 1965 by arguing the following:

1. three sisters, one of which is Hiltrude, are mentioned as daughters of Charles Martel by a contemporary source, and Landrade being cited by a life story of St. Chrodegang, mentioning her as a mother and daughter of St. Charles, which is chronologically impossible.

2. a young son of Charles Martel, the Duke Wala, married a granddaughter of Alda, and he was surprised that the religious authorities were not opposed to the marriage because of cosanguinity.

3. It is surprising that no mention is made in the necrology that Aldi is the sister of Pepin.

4. Finally, he explained that the reference to "royal stock" is explained by the fact that Thierry I Autun, a descendent of Bertrade Prum, is based on his relation to the Merovingians, and apparently to Bertrade de Laon, granddaughter of Bertrade Prum and mother of Charlemagne.

These arguments are not really conclusive as:

1. The mention of the erroneous passages with Landrade as mother and daughter of Chrodegang St. Charles Martel is surely a confusion between Ladrade, mother of St. Chrodegang, and another Landrade, daughter of Charles Martel, which is an argument for the existence of a daughter of Charles Martel of the same name.

2. At the time of the Carolingians, marriage was not a religious sacrament, but only a civil act, and many examples show that the impediments caused by inbreeding were not respected.

3. There were other examples of charters with close relatives of the Carolingian kings and for which the relationship with the kings are not mentioned. On the other hand, Hiltrude was then on bad terms with Pepin the Short and Carloman, and her sisters may have shared a bad opinion of her.

4. Finally, "of royal stock" means being born into a royal family (Merovingian or Carolingian), which excludes the cousins of Bertrade Prum, and it was then (during the reign of Louis the Pious) not fashionable to recall a kinship with an ancient dynasty.

These arguments strengthen the case for the parentage of Alda.


William of Gellone

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

William was born in northern France in the mid-8th century. He was a cousin of Charlemagne (his mother Aldana was daughter of Charles Martel) and the son of Thierry IV, Count of Autun and Toulouse.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gisela


Gisela (757 – 810) was the daughter of Pepin the Short and his wife Bertrada of Laon. She was the sister of Charlemagne and Carloman. Charlemagne's biographer Einhard states that Gisela had been dedicated to religion since her childhood. She became a nun at Chelles Abbey, where she was eventually made abbess.

As the abbess at Chelles Abbey, Gisela oversaw one of the most prolific nuns' scriptoria active in the 8th and 9th centuries. According to Einhard she had good relations with her brother Charlemagne, who "treated her with the same respect which he showed his mother." She died in 810 at the convent she had served for most of her life.

Charlemagne and his wife Hildegard named their daughter after Gisela. Gisela the Younger may have lived from 781 to 808, but little else is known of her life.


See "My Lines"

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/p69.htm#i9078 )

from Compiler: R. B. Stewart, Evans, GA

( http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cousin/html/index.htm ) -------------------- http://www.our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p328.htm#i9848

read more


Info from FIndagrave.com: Birth: unknown Liège, Belgium Death: unknown, France

Birth:720 Death:804

Abbess at Chelles Abbey, Prinsesse af Frankrig


Family links:

Parents:
 Charles Martel (676 - 741)
 Chrotrudis de Treves Martel

Spouse:
 Teiric I d'Autun

Children:
 Berthe Aube d'Autun d'Autun*
 St William the Great of Gellone*

Siblings:
 Aude (Aldana) d'Austrasia d'Autun
 Carloman Martel**
 Bernard duc de St Quentin d'Herstal*
 King Pepin (714 - 768)*
  • Calculated relationship
    • Half-sibling

Burial: Saint Arnoul Royal Abbey Metz Departement de la Moselle Lorraine, France


Edit Virtual Cemetery info [?]


Created by: Memerizion Record added: Mar 28, 2015 Find A Grave Memorial# 144267495

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Aldana's Timeline

755
755
Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrénées, France

Northern France.

760
760
Comté d'Autun, Bourgogne, (Within present France)
1928
April 14, 1928
St George Utah Temple, St George, Washington, Utah, USA
April 14, 1928
1933
March 3, 1933
March 3, 1933
Mesa Arizona Temple, Mesa, Maricopa, Arizona, USA
1954
May 25, 1954
May 25, 1954
May 25, 1954