Elizabeth Morgan

Children of William Winter and Mary Langton:

Elizabeth b. 1564, m. William Morgan of Monmouthshire, Wales

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/MT4G-DR9

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Winter-211

http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-73-383.pdf

Elizabeth Winter (living 1597). She is referred to as ‘Elizabeth Winter’ in the will below, and therefore appears to have been unmarried as late as 1589.

This is difficult to reconcile with sources which state that she married, in 1583, Sir William Morgan (b.1560, d.1653, aged 93) of Tredegar, (as the first of his two wives),eldest son of Sir Thomas Morgan (d.1603?) of Machen and Tredegar, and had a daughter by him, Elizabeth Winter, born in 1583. See Williams, W.R., The Parliamentary History of the Principality of Wales, (Brecknock: Edwin Davies and Bell, 1895), pp. 121-2 at: https://archive.org/stream/cu31924030498939#page/n142/mode/1up See also ‘Morgan Family of Tredegar Park, Monmouth’ at: https://biography.wales/article/s-MORG-TRE-1384 See also: http://ritaren.tripod.com/morgan.html

The difficulty could perhaps be resolved by hypothesizing that Sir William Morgan (b.1560, d.1653, aged 93) married an unidentified first wife in 1583, by whom he had a daughter, Elizabeth Morgan, born in 1583, and that Elizabeth Winter was his second wife.

" The surname of Elizabeth was also “Morgan”. While the Morgan line of her husband remains untraced beyond his parents, that of Elizabeth has been well developed. Her noble line, part of which follows here, is that to which some Morgans in American lay claim.

Morgan researchers in America have been well motivated to prove an ancestral connection for James Morgan to this William and Elizabeth because she has a rich royal ancestry going back for many generations. No proof has been found, however, that the Morgan brothers, James, John and Miles, who came to America and settled in Groton, Connecticut were sons of this William Morgan, husband of Elizabeth Morgan, despite claims by so many Morgan compilers in the United States.

William was a merchant of Diveru, according to Cutter's Massachusetts, who moved to Bristol in 1616.

The book "History of Morgan Family" calls him a "merchant in Dderw [Thurrow] of Landaff" and a descendant of another Morgan line [other than that of Elizabeth].

One source from which this connection to William of Tredegar House probably began is the book "Morgans in America" by Nicholas T. Morgan, Sr. which states for William Morgan: “… was born in Llandaff, Glamorgan County, Wales, about 1580; was the father of the three sons herein below named, who emigrated to America and arrived at Boston, Massachusetts in April, 1636: James, John, Miles.” The author does not state who the mother was that bore these three children which, of course, is the whole issue. Neither does he give us a clue by stating whether or not his William of Llandaff was also the William of Diveru who married Elizabeth Morgan. Others must have simply assumed as much when in fact this William Morgan could have been anyone with that name.

Another book "Bluegrass Pioneers -- A Chronicle of the Hunt and Morgan Families", 1996 by Charles P. Stanton states "The Morgan clan marked its beginning in America with the emigration of three sons of William Morgan of Llanfabon and Divern, Wales, and Bristol England, where he became a merchant. According to tradition the three sons (John, Miles, and James) sailed from Bristol England, on the ship "Mary" a chartered immigrant vessel, and arrived in Sandy Bay, near Gloucester, Massachusetts, but are said to have landed in Boston, in the Massachusetts Bay colony in April, 1636, a 140 years before the American Revolution."

Probably a factor in all of this could be a confusion about place names in Wales. While there is certainly a town of Llandaff on the Glamorgan Peninsula of Wales, there are no modern places by the names Diveru, Divern, Ddrrw, Thurrow or Llanfabon which I have been able to locate. For example, it is a rather natural assumption to loosely reason something like this: “The Morgan brothers sailed from Bristol. William of Diveru moved to Bristol. Diveru is an early spelling, or a misspelling of Divern. Therefore William of Divern is the William who married Elizabeth Morgan and by physical association in Bristol the father of John, Miles and James Morgan.” There are holes in this argument such that a tank could pass through them, of course.

Here’s an interesting item placed on the Morgan Family forum 9 Jul 2003 by Ben Morris, then of Scripps College]

I agree that many researchers in the USA may be under a delusion about a family connection to the Tredegar Morgans, but how can we put this topic to rest. Many Morgan researchers have Elizabeth

10th child on your list) the daughter of Sir William Morgan and Elizabeth (the daughter of Sir William Winter) as the progenitor of this delusion. Many have this daughter's birth as 1583 in Tredegar, and her marriage to William Morgan a merchant from Diveru (Dderw) (Thurrow) county Brecon, Wales. They were apparently removed to Bristol, England. It is this Elizabeth and William who many have written had 10 children including the three brothers James, Miles and John who sailed from Bristol to Boston in January 1636.

I have my copy of the Genealogies of Glamorgan, and the material contained is very interesting and thorough especially for the ancient Morgans, the only mention of this family is found under Family Links where it states, Morgan of Dderw- Son in Law of Sir William Morgan of Tredegar. Since this connection seems to be founded on family tradition, how can we focus our energies to resolve to find the proof or dispell finally the connection.

Ben Morris,

San Diego, CA

Mr. Morris was responding to the following message dated 7/8/2003 from someone in possession of information from the Morgan Family Assn.:

There must be many Morgans in the USA labouring under a delusion about the origins of John, James and Miles Morgan brothers, claimed to be sons of Sir William Morgan of Tredegar House.

Unfortunately, Sir William Morgan who married Elizabeth, daughter of Sir William Winter, had no children of these names.

His children were:

(1)Thomas, (2)Edward, (3)William, (4)Rowland, (5)John (who moved to London in 1652), (6)Mary, (7)Blanch, (8)Frances, (9)Mary, (10)Elizabeth; and by his second wife, Bridget, widow of Anthony Morgan, (11) Sir Anthony, (12) Mary.

Elizabeth of Tredegar remains unproven as the mother of the three Morgan brothers in America. Therefore the ancestral line of the Morgans in the United States ends with James, John and Miles Morgan of Groton Massachusetts, or certainly no farther then to one William Morgan of unknown origin who resided in Bristol, England."

source: http://www.lynngallup.org/genfam/pafg84.htm#1396

References

• Maclean, John and W.C. Heane, eds., The Visitation of the County of Gloucester Taken in the Year 1623, Vol. XXI, (London: Harleian Society, 1885), “Wynter.” Page 273. Archive.Org Children of William Winter and Maria Langton: 1. Edwardus (miles) = Anna, filia Edw. comitis Wigorniae [Worcester] 2. Nicholaus & 3. Jacobus ob. s. p’le. 4. William. Maria ux Thomas Baynham. Elianora ux George Huntley.
• Will of William Winter, 1589. http://www.oxford-shakespeare.com/Probate/PROB_11-73-383.pdf
• The visitation of the county of Gloucester : begun by Thomas May, Chester, and Gregory King, Rouge Dragon, in Trinity vaction, 1682, and finished by Henry Dethick, Richmond, and the said Rouge Dragon, Pursuivant, in Trinity vacation, 1683 : by virtue of several deputacons from Sir Henry St. George image Sons: 1) Sir Edward Winter, Kt = Anne, 3 dau of Edward, Earl of Worcester. 2) Nicholas. 3) William. Daughters: 1) Elizabeth 2) Elianor 3) Jane.