Giselbert I, count of Maasgau

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Giselbert de Lorraine, comte de Maasgau

English (default): Giselbert, comte de Maasgau, French: Giselbert de Lorraine, comte de Basse-Lorraine
Also Known As: "Gilbert", "aka Gislebert I von TOXANDRIEN; vom MASSGAU", "Gilbert von Maasgau", "Gilbert de Moselle", "Gislebert", "Giselbert /de Hainaut/", "Giselbert Of The /Maasgau/", "(Gijsbrecht)", "Giselbert", "Darnau", "the Meuse", "Von Barnau Zu Maasgau Count Of Brabant"
Birthdate:
Death: 892 (61-62)
Rheims, Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
Immediate Family:

Husband of NN poss Ermengarde de Tours
Father of Adalbert von Maasgau, I and Reginar I "Longneck", Duke of Lorraine and Count of Hainault

Occupation: Comte de Brabant, comte en Maasgau, comte de Lomme, graaf in de Lommengouw vv.846-849, graaf van de Darnau 863, Duc, de Hesbaye, Comte, de Mansuarie, de Lomegau, de Brabant, de Basse-Lorraine, Comte de Maasgau, Count of Brabant, Count of Darnau.
Managed by: Daniel Robert May
Last Updated:

About Giselbert I, count of Maasgau

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giselbert_I_van_Maasgouw
Translated to English:

Giselbert I van Maasgouw or Giselbert I (ca. 825 - after September 6, 885) was a Frankish nobleman and ancestor of the Reiniers, a family that would play an important role in the Duchy of Lorraine for several centuries.

Giselbert was Count of the Maasgouw in 841. He had been a supporter of Charles the Bald and when Lothair I became his king after the Treaty of Verdun, he decided to move to Western Francia. There he finally joined the camp of Pepin II of Aquitaine. In 846 Giselbert Ermengarde, daughter of Emperor Lothair I, elope and married her in Aquitaine in the same year. After Pépin lost his position, Giselbert sought refuge with Louis the German. Ermengarde died in 849 and he was able to reconcile with Lothair I through the mediation of Charles the Bald. The marriage was recognized and Giselbert could return to the Maasgouw. He was appointed Count of the Lommegouw in 866.

Giselbert was the son of Giselbert van de Bidgouw (born ca. 800).

Giselbert was married to Ermengarde (ca. 828 - 849), daughter of Emperor Lothair I and Irmgard. They had the following children:
Reinier I of Hainaut
Albert van Maasgouw
Questionable:
o Richwin of Verdun (c. 848 - 923). Beheaded his unknown first wife (daughter of Enguerrand and Friderada) for unchastity, and remarried Kunigonde. She may have been the same as Kunigunde van de Ardennes widow of Count Palatine Wigerik. Richwin was murdered by one Boso, son of Richard.

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1. GISELBERT [I], son of --- (-after 14 Jun 877, maybe after 6 Sep 885). Giselbert's origin is unknown. However, Viking connections are suggested by his supposed son's name, similar to the Nordic "Ragnar", especially bearing in mind the increasing number of Viking raids south of Frisia after [825/30] and Frankish concessions of territory in the low countries to Danish leaders[1498]. Another possibility is that Giselbert was related to Reginar [Reginhere] son of Meginhere. Graf von Maasgau. Nithard names "Giselbert count of the Maasgau" ("comes Mansuariorum") as one of the supporters of Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks against his half-brother Emperor Lothaire[1499]. He was obliged to leave his county, attributed to him by Emperor Lothaire after the treaty of Verdun in 843[1500]. Giselbert supported Pépin King of Aquitaine, but after the latter fell from power found refuge with Ludwig II "der Deutsche" King of the East Franks. He abducted and married Emperor Lothaire's daughter without her father's consent (see below), but was finally pardoned by the emperor in 849 and authorised to return to his lands. An agreement between Charles II "le Chauve" and his brother Ludwig II "der Deutsche" dated Jun 860 names "nobilis ac fidelibus laicis…Gislebertus…"[1501]. Comte in Darnau: "Ansfridus…comes…et Hildiwardus filius meus" donated property "in pago Darnau, in marca vel villa Sodoia…super fluvium Geldiun, in comitatu Giselberti" to Lorsch by charter dated 5 Oct 863[1502]. An agreement dated 14 Jun 877 of Emperor Charles II "le Chauve", presumably written with his own death in mind, names "Arnulfus comes, Gislebertus, Letardus, Matfridus, Widricus, Gotbertus, Adalbertus, Ingelgerus, Rainerus" as those willing to support the emperor's son if he travels across the Meuse[1503]. Emperor Karl III granted property "in pago Condruscio…Alnith" to "Gislebertus…comes…fidelis suis Teodone" by charter dated 6 Sep 885[1504]. Although it is not certain that this refers to Count Giselbert [I], no other contemporary individual of the same name has so far been identified.

m (Aquitaine 846) --- of Lotharingia, daughter of Emperor LOTHAIRE I & his wife Ermengarde de Tours ([825/30]-). The Gesta Francorum records that "Gisalbertus, vassallus Karoli" abducted "filiam Hlotharii imperatoris" and took her to Aquitaine where they were married[1505]. The Annales Fuldenses also record that "Gisalbertus vassallus Karoli" abducted "filiam Hlotharii imperatoris" and married her in Aquitaine in 846[1506]. The Annales Mettenses also date this event in 846[1507]. Settipani states that the emperor recognised the marriage in 849[1508]. Rösch says that this daughter is often named Ermengarde but that there is no contemporary proof that this is correct[1509].

Count Giselbert [I] & his wife had [two] children:
a) [REGINAR [I] "Langhals/Longneck" ([850]-Meerssen [25 Aug 915/19 Jan 916]). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified, although his naming his son Giselbert suggests that this affiliation is probably correct. The Annales Hanoniæ name "Rignerius Montensis comes" (although the reference to his being Comte de Mons appears to be anachronistic) as the ally of "Francone episcopo Leodiensi" against the Vikings in 870, and in a later undated passage "Raginerus" fighting "cum Frissonibus in Walacria contra Rollonem"[1510], although it is unclear from the context whether these references are to "Raginerus dictus Longi-colli". The date when Reginar was installed as Comte de Hainaut is uncertain but was probably during the last quarter of the 9th century, certainly after the date of the 877 agreement for his county would then not have been "across the Meuse".] - see below.
b) [ALBERT ([860]-after [928/36]). "Albertus" donated "villam…Aldanias…in pago Arduennense" to Stavelot by charter dated 3 Oct [932], which names "fratre meo Raginero, dux Gislebertus consanguineus meus"[1511].]

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.h...
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http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00020429&tree=LEO
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He is NOT the documented known father of:
Richwin de Verdun, comte de Verdun} OR
Ehrenfried von Maasgau, I, Count in the Bliesgau, the Keldachgau and of Charmois}

source PLZ
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http://helenesgenes.com/Lorraine.html#gi2

Giselbert de Maasgau
b.abt.800; s/o Gainfroy de Sens and Theudelinde de Blois [de Blisqau]
m.Beertswinda de Hesbaye

CHILDREN: Giselbert [Gilbert], Count of the Moselle [Count of Brabant] b.abt.825/830
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http://mypages.allwest.com/~rognan/genealogy/pafg3076.htm#78662

Giselbert (Gilbert) von Messgau Count In The Massgau-78662 [Parents] was born in 795 in France. He died in 842. He married Miss. Miss. Hesbaye-78405.

Miss. Miss. Hesbaye-78405 was born about 799. She married Giselbert (Gilbert) von Messgau Count In The Massgau-78662.
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aka Gislebert I von TOXANDRIEN; vom MASSGAU

HM George I s 22-oldefar.
HRE Ferdinand I s 19-oldefar.
Amerikanske præsidents 25-oldefar.
Otto von Bismarcks 26-oldefar.
Red Baron 'Richthofen s 28-oldefar.
Agnes Harris '25-oldefar.



Kone / partner: (Miss, de) Hesbaye
Mulig Barn: Giselbert II von MAASGAU
Alternative Fædre Mulig
Child: prob. ikke Rainier (Regnier) (Count) de SAUNOIS; prob. ikke Alberon II i Mons, qv
---
Hans (evt.) oldebørn: Regnier (Rainier Reginar) II (Count) af Hainaut
Giselbert (Hainaut) (Duke) de Lothringen
Simphoriane af Hainaut
Erenfried I (Count) von Bliesgau
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Fra http://fabpedigree.com/s036/f280207.htm
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Parentage and origin unknown

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http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/LOTHARINGIAN%20(LOWER)%20NOBILITY.h...

Chapter 11. GRAVEN van MAASGAU (MASAU)

Both banks of the Maas valley, from Maastricht to the county of Teisterbant and as far as the county of Tettuaria on the right bank, comprised two counties, Upper and Lower Maasgau (or Masau). The division of Lotharingian territories agreed 8 Aug 870 between Ludwig II "der Deutsche" King of the East Franks and his half-brother Charles II "le Chauve" King of the West Franks allocated "…comitatum…Masau subterior…[et] Masau superior…" between King Ludwig King Charles[1491]. Giselbert was installed as count in Maasgau, probably in the late 830s/early 840s, although no record has been found to indicate whether the county was still divided into two parts at that time and if so which of the parts was ruled by Giselbert. He was dispossessed briefly, between 846 and 849, after his dispute with Emperor Lothaire concerning his abduction of the emperor's daughter. Giselbert was also appointed count in Darnau, identified in the area of Namur, before 863. It is assumed that he retained his interests in Maasgau.

---------------------------------

Giselbert Von Barnau Zu Maasgau Count Of Brabant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert,_Count_of_the_Maasgau

Gilbert, Count of the Maasgau From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gilbert (Giselbert), Count of Maasgau, was a vassal of Charles the Bald. He was count of Maasgau on the lower Meuse.

Gilbert's background is not known. The similarity of his son's name to the name "Ragnar" has been used as an argument to suggest a Viking connection.[1] Another possibility is that he was related to a man named Reginar, son of Meginhere (a nobleman from the court of Charlemagne). Gilbert had served King Lothair I, but defected to Lothair's half-brother Charles the Bald during the civil war of 840-843. Gilbert's lands eventually came under the rule of Lothair and his rights as count were revoked. In 846 Gilbert abducted an unnamed daughter of Lothair and his wife Ermengarde of Tours. He took her to Aquitaine and married her in an attempt to force Lothair to reinstate him.[2] Rösch suggests that Gilbert's wife was named Ermengarde, but there is no conclusive evidence that this is correct.[3]

Children may include:

Reginar, Duke of Lorraine (ca 850–916). There is no primary source unequivocally stating that Reginar was Gilbert's son.

Albert is mentioned as a brother of Reginar.[4]

References

  1. McKitterick, R. (1983) Frankish Kingdoms under the Carolingians 751-987 (Longman, London and New York) p. 230.
  2. Eric Joseph Goldberg, Struggle for empire: kingship and conflict under Louis the German, 817-876, Cornell University Press, 2006
  3. Rösch, S. (1977) Caroli Magni Progenies (Verlag Degener & Co, Neustadt an der Aisch)
  4. Halkin, J. and Roland, C. J. (eds.) (1909) Recueil des Chartes de l'abbaye de Stavelot-Malmédy, Tome I (Brussels)

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Occupation: Count of Meuse

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giselbert_II_van_Maasgouw

Optælling af DARNAU, i Massgau, alias Gilbert de BRABANT,? Aka Gislebert de MANSURIE
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  • 'HM George I s 21-oldefar.
  • HRE Ferdinand I s 18-oldefar.
  • Amerikanske præsidents 24-oldefar.
  • PM Churchills 28-oldefar.
  • HM Margrethe II har 28-oldefar.
  • Otto von Bismarcks 25-oldefar.
  • Agnes Harris '24-oldefar.
  • Osawatomie 'Browns 28-oldefar.

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Kone / partner: Ermengarde (Helletrude) de Lorraine
Børn: Regnier (Rainer Reginar) I (Count) de Hainault; Adalbert I von MAASGAU
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Fra http://fabpedigree.com/s068/f140103.htm
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http://genealogiequebec.info/testphp/info.php?no=24080

Gilbert, comte de Maasgau 1 (820 - 875)

Il est aussi connu sous le nom de Giselbert en Lommegau, comte 2. En 841, il est connu sous le nom de Giselbert II, comte de Maasgau dit de Hainaut 2, 3.

Il est le fils de Giselbert de Maasgau 3 et Bertswinda de Hesbaye 3.

Il nait en 820 3. Il épouse Irmengarde de Germanie, duchesse de Moselle, fille de Lothaire Ier de Germanie, empereur d'Occident et Ermengarde, comtesse de Tours en 846. Il décède en 875 3, 5.

Il nait en 820 2. Gilbert, comte de Maasgau est cité de 840 à 885 1. Il décède en 892 2.

Liste de ses enfants connus:

  1. Adalbert Ier de Maasgau (847 - 935) (de Irmengarde de Germanie, duchesse de Moselle)
  2. Rainier, duc de Lotharingie dit au Long Col (850 - 915) 3, 4 (de Irmengarde de Germanie, duchesse de Moselle)
  3. de Hainaut de Meuse (865 - ) 2 (de Irmengarde de Germanie, duchesse de Moselle)
=========================================

Lothair I

  • King of Bavaria, 814-817.
  • King of Italy, 822-5, 829-840.
  • Emperor, 833-4, 840-855 (joint emperor from 817)....

Children:....

  • FEMALE NN;
m. 846, Giselbert, fl. 840-863, count of Masau and Darnau.
In 846, Giselbert carried off an unnamed daughter of Lothair and married her ["Gisalbertus vassallus Karli filiam Hlutharii imperatoris rapuit et in Aquitaniam profectus in coniugem accepit. Hludowicus occidentem profectus mense Martio cum Karlo placitum habuit; in quo uterque eorum publice contestatus est suae non fuisse voluntatis, quod Gisalbertus filiae Hlutharii iungeretur, ut his auditis Hlutharius facilius placari potuisset." Annales Fuldenses, s.a. 846, MGH SRG 36]. This marriage appears to have been recognized in 848, when Giselbert and the emperor were reconciled ["Circa Kalendas autem Octobris general placitum habuit apud Mogontiacum, ... pro Gisalberhto, qui eodem anno ad fidem eius venerat, reconciliationis gratia direxit." Annales Fuldenses, s.a. 848, MGH SRG 37-8]. More about Giselbert can be found on the page of his conjectured son count Regnier I. Although the name of this daughter of Lothair I is not given in the sources, she has often been called Ermengarde in later sources [e.g., Anselme, 1: 43], a name whose source is unknown. Chaume would identify her with Lothair's known daughter Helletrude, widow of count Bérenger [Chaume (1925), 549 (table 11)].

http://sbaldw.home.mindspring.com/hproject/prov/lotha000.htm
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12.684.633.244 Reginar I, geb. ca. 850; bezit tal van landgoederen in Wallonië en stroomafwaarts langs de Maas; wordt (ook in oorkonden) met verschillende titels aangeduid (graaf, markgraaf, na 911 ook missus dominicus); overl. na 25 augustus 915 en vóór 15 januari 916, tr.
12.684.633.245 Alberada N. [G.N. 1991, 580, nr. 5/213]. Ouders van 6.342.316.622. 12.684.633.246 Hendrik I, Duits koning, en diens tweede gemalin 12.684.633.247 Mathilde van Westfalen. Ouders van 6.342.316.623.

{{12,684,633,244 Reginar I, b. about 850, has numerous estates in Wallonia and downstream along the Meuse, is denoted by different titles (earl, marquis, after 911 also missus dominicus) (including charters) at. after 25 August 915 and before 15 January 916, tr.  12,684,633,245 Alberada N.  [G. N. 1991, 580, No. 5/213]. Parents of 6342316622.  12,684,633,246 Henry I, German king, and his second wife  12,684,633,247 Mathilde Westphalia. Parents of 6342316623}}

GENERATIE XXXV

25.369.266.488 Giselbert, vermeld als graaf in de Maasgouw 840 en 841; is vazal van Karel ‘de Kale’ van West-Francië wanneer hij (vóór maart 846) een dochter van keizer Lotharius naar Aquitanië ontvoert en daar huwt; verzoent zich (na een rijksdag te Thionville okt. 848) begin 849 met de keizer; graaf van de Darnau in 863; overl. na 14 juni 877; mogelijk zoon van een Reginar die in de jaren 797-814 als gegoed in de Bidgau aanwijsbaar is; tr. (na schaking) 846 25.369.266.489 N. (‘Irmingard’), geb. ca. 830. [G.N. 1991, 579, nr. 4/213]. Ouders van 12.684.633.244

{{25.369.266.488 Giselbert listed as count in Maasgouw 840 and 841, is a vassal of Charles 'the Bald' of West Francia when he kidnaps (before March 846) a daughter of Emperor Lothair to Aquitaine and married there; reconciled (after a Diet of Thionville Oct 848) 849 beginning with the Emperor. Earl of Darnau in 863; deceased. after 14 June 877, possibly the son of a Reginar in the years 797-814 as well-off is arguably the Bidgau, tr. (after elopement) 846 25,369,266,489 N. (Ermengarde), b. approximately 830. [G. N. 1991, 579, No. 4/213]. Parents of 12,684,633,244..}}

GENERATIE XXXVI

50.738.532.978 Lotharius I, geb. 795 (waarschijnlijk in Aquitanië en aldaar opgegroeid); (onder)koning in Beieren 814; tot keizer gekroond Aken juli 817; treedt in het klooster te Prüm 23-9, overl. 29 september 855 en begraven aldaar, tr. okt. 821 50.738.532.979 Ermengard, overl. 20 maart 851; dr. van Hugo graaf van Tours en Ava N. [G.N. 1991, 510, nr. 3/203]. Ouders van 25.369.266.489.

{{50,738,532,978 Lothair I, b. 795 (probably in Aquitaine where he grew up), (bottom) King of Bavaria 814; crowned emperor Aachen in July 817, enters the monastery of Prüm 23-9 at. September 29 855 and buried, tr. Oct. 821 50,738,532,979 Ermengard at. 851 March 20, Dr. Hugo Count of Tours and Ava N. [G. N. 1991, 510, No. 3/203]. Parents of 25,369,266,489.}}

http://www.vanderkrogt.net/kwartierstaat/g20ev.html#12684633244
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(Wiki)

Gilbert (Giselbert), Count of Maasgau, was a vassal of Charles the Bald. He was count of Maasgau on the lower Meuse.

Gilbert's background is not known. The similarity of his son's name to the name "Ragnar" has been used as an argument to suggest a Viking connection.[1] Another possibility is that he was related to a man named Reginar, son of Meginhere (a nobleman from the court of Charlemagne). Gilbert had served King Lothair I, but defected to Lothair's half-brother Charles the Bald during the civil war of 840-843. Gilbert's lands eventually came under the rule of Lothair and his rights as count were revoked. In 846 Gilbert abducted an unnamed daughter of Lothair and his wife Ermengarde of Tours. He took her to Aquitaine and married her in an attempt to force Lothair to reinstate him.[2] Rösch suggests that Gilbert's wife was named Ermengarde, but there is no conclusive evidence that this is correct.[3]

Children may include: Reginar, Duke of Lorraine (c. 850–916). There is no primary source unequivocally stating that Reginar was Gilbert's son. Albert is mentioned as a brother of Reginar.
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Gilbert (Giselbert), Count of Maasgau, was a vassal of Charles the Bald. He was count of Maasgau on the lower Meuse. Gilbert's background is not known. The similarity of his son's name to the name "Ragnar" has been used as an argument to suggest a Viking connection.[1] Another possibility is that he was related to a man named Reginar, son of Meginhere (a nobleman from the court of Charlemagne). Gilbert had served King Lothair I, but defected to Lothair's half-brother Charles the Bald during the civil war of 840-843. Gilbert's lands eventually came under the rule of Lothair and his rights as count were revoked. In 846 Gilbert abducted an unnamed daughter of Lothair and his wife Ermengarde of Tours. He took her to Aquitaine and married her in an attempt to force Lothair to reinstate him.[2] Rösch suggests that Gilbert's wife was named Ermengarde, but there is no conclusive evidence that this is correct.[3] Children may include: Reginar, Duke of Lorraine (c. 850–916). There is no primary source unequivocally stating that Reginar was Gilbert's son. Albert is mentioned as a brother of Reginar.[4]
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Gilbert, comte de Maasgau1 (820 - 875)

  1. 24080 (Ajouter une note)

Il est aussi connu sous le nom de Giselbert en Lommegau, comte2. Il est aussi connu sous le nom de Giselbert II, comte de Maasgau dit de Hainaut2, 3 en 841. Il est le fils de Giselbert de Maasgau 3 et Bertswinda de Hesbaye 3.

Il naît en 8202, 3. Il épouse Irmengarde de Germanie, duchesse de Moselle fille de Ermengarde, comtesse de Tours et Lothaire Ier de Germanie, empereur d'Occident en 846. Il décède en 8753, 4. Liste de ses enfants connus: + 1. Adalbert Ier de Maasgau (847 - 935) (de Irmengarde de Germanie, duchesse de Moselle) + 2. Rainier, duc de Lotharingie dit au Long Col (850 - 915)3, 5 (de Irmengarde de Germanie, duchesse de Moselle) + 3. de Hainaut de Meuse (865 - )2 (de Irmengarde de Germanie, duchesse de Moselle)

Gilbert, comte de Maasgau est cité de 840 à 8851.

Gilbert, comte de Maasgau (820 - 875) Giselbert de Maasgau (790 - 845) Gainfroy de Sens (741 - ) Mainier de Sens (715 - 800)

de Sens (720 - ) Haudré, comte de Sens (700 - )

Theudelinde de Bliesgau (750 - 796) Aubry II de Bliesgau (750 - 796) Aubry Ier de Bliesgau (695 - )

Bertswinda de Hesbaye (795 - )