Johan Gottfried Gericke, SV/PROG

There has been an ongoing discussion about the date of birth as well as about the name of the father of Johan Gottfried Gericke based on conflicting information as found in his baptismal record and his death notice.

As far as correctness of information, the baptismal record has greater authority than the death notice when it concerns the date of birth as well as the name of the father.

Thanks to everybody who did their level best to ascertain the correctness of the information as given in both documents. Beyond all reasonable doubt, the information in both documents has been correctly shared in the discussion.

Such differences, especially about dates of birth, do occur - especially in documents from before the 1800's and even more so, when the information from Europe was not readily available in the southern tip of Africa.

Below you can find more details about the discussion, which is now regarded as closed.

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Splinternuwe bron vir die stamvader se geboorte en doop in Harkerode 1746 !!!

Kliek op Media om foto's van die oorspronklike doopiskrywing te sien. Dis ongelukkig in Latyn en die handskrif is moeilik leesbaar. Hy is die 12de van die dertien 1746 dopeling-inskrywings. Onder dokumente is die twee briewe uit Duitsland, soos van 'n dame by die Magdeburgse Kerkargief ontvang.

• Lena Koch, wat my navraag oor 'n moontlike doop aldaar hanteer het, het goedgunstiglik die onderstaande inligting van die mikrofilm gekry.
• Vader: Gottfried Gericke se seun is gebore 17/11/1746 en gedoop op 20/11/1746.
• 3 name van getuies by die doop: Johann Gottlieb?, Theodorus Jacob Arendt en Christina Margaretha? Die vraagtekens, sê sy, is daar omdat die handskrif nie so maklik leesbaar is nie. In Duitsland, nes in SA, was die gebruik dat getuies gewoonlik ook familielede was.
• Kind: Johann Gottfriedt

Om alle twyfel uit die weg te ruim, het ek ook van die dame verneem of daar dalk enige Gerickes in 1741 in Harkerode gedoop is. Haar antwoord, in Duits, laat geen twyfel meer nie. Sy kon géén ander Gericke in die doopregister vind in die jare 1740-1747 nie. Net die EEN, Johann Gottfriedt Gericke, gebore 17/11/1746, seun van Gottfried Gericke. Ook meen sy dat die 6 soos dit moontlik op die Suid-Afrikaanse Sterftekennis gelees kan word as sy sterfouderdom, in sierskrif dui op 'n 1. Dan klop die ouderdom 91 in 1837 met sy geboortejaar 1746. Yvonne Theron

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Gebeurtenisse

1. As gevolg van die hoë eise van die Adel aan hulle onderdane het die burgers van Duitsland al hoe meer hulle toevlug tot Nederland geneem

2. Johann Godfried Gericke is in 1746 gebore in Harkerode wat deel was van Sakse.

3. Met die Sewe-jaar oorlog vanaf 1756 tot 1763 was Johann Godfried Gericke 10 jaar oud toe dit begin het en 17 toe dit beëindig is. Friedrich der Große van Pruise het Sakse (wat neutraal was) in 1756 binnegeval en die Saksiese soldate gedwing om deel te word van die Pruisiese Mag.

4. Die tyd en omstandighede was ideaal vir beter vooruitsigte.

5. Op die Oosindische Compagnie Passagierslijs naar Indië gee hy sy naam aan as Johann Godfried Gerreke en sy woonadres as Hakfort

6. Arriveer in die Kaap met die skip Bartha Petronella in die jaar 12 June 1773 volgens die skeepsdokument, so not possible to be father of child of Johanna Jurgens

7. VOC dokumente toon, dat hy ‘n skrynwerker was

8. Skeepsdokumente toon, dat hy ‘n soldaat was.

9. Word ‘n wamaker

10. Vestig hom op die leenplaas Geelhoutboom te Outeniqualand, George, Weskaap, RSA

11. Sterf in die ouderdom van 96 jaar.

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DIE GERICKES VAN GEELHOUTBOOM

a1 Johan Godfried GERICKE Harkerode, Zachsen, Germany circa 1746, † Geelhoutboom, South Africa 21.03.1837. Wagon-maker, initially for HOIK He arrived here 12/06/ 1773 and left the VOC in 1785. His contract to graze his livestock on the loan farm Geelhoute Boom was signed at the Castle in Cape Town on 3 Apr 1788 as RLR 36/1-77. The farm had previously been abandoned by Gideon van Zeyl. The annual charge was sixteen Ducatond (each worth 72 Stuiwers), the equivalent of twenty four Rijksdaalders. In addition he had to deliver one tenth of his wheat crop to the Castle in Cape Town. He was granted the Quitrent ownership of Geelhoutboom by Lord Charles Henry Somerset on 1 October 1816. The farm covered 1695 morgen originally but with subdivision and selling only about one fifth was in family hands by the turn of the century. According to CO 3942-353 he applied on 19 Jan 1829 to Sir Lowry Cole, the then Governor of the Cape, for permission to cut four wagon loads of wood in the Government Forest near George Town in order to repair and complete his dwelling. The property he left included; Half a farm, oxen, wagons, horses, furniture and an apprentice. Slavery was abolished in the Cape Colony in 1834. The freed slaves however had to serve as ’Apprentices’ for a period of four years, allegedly to prepare themselves for freedom. Source : † MOOC 6/9/10-2120, Name Of Person: Johan Godfried GERICKE

He allegedly had an illegitimate daughter by Johanna Jacoba JURGENS. This child was baptised 22 November 1772. However, it is most likely not his child as he only arrived in the Cape 12 June 1773 on the ship Bartha Petronella which departer from Amsterdam on 20-10-1772.

Of his children the following were baptized at Swellendam and only 11 children on his death notice 1837

 ( https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQX-M99V-W?i=137&...  )

* Johan Christiaan (23.10.1798),

• Anna Dorothea (2.2.1800),
• Jacobus Stephanus (14.10.1804),
• Maria Catharina (27.11.1807),
• Catharina Magdalena (24.5.1809),
• Georg Sebastiaan (16.12.1811),
• Fredrik Wilhelm (5.12.1812).

His surviving children were:

• Frans, Johan Christiaan,
• Hendrik, Fredrik Wilhelm,
• Rosina, Anna Dorothea (~ Adriaan Stander, G.R., III, p. 331),
• Maria Catharina, Salsina.

- Edited and updated from Dr. J. Hoge, Personalia of the Germans at the Cape, 1652-1806, Archives Year Book for South African History (Cape Town: Government Printer, Union of South Africa, 1946)

Gegevens van Johan Godfried Gerreke uit Hakvort

• Datum indiensttreding: 20-10-1772
• Datum uit dienst: 31-08-1793
• Functie bij indiensttreding: Soldaat
• Reden uit dienst: Laatste vermelding
• Uitgevaren met het schip: Bartha Petronella
• Waar uit dienst: Kaap de Goede Hoop
• Maandbrief: Nee
• Schuldbrief: Nee

Gegevens van de vaart

• Schip: Bartha Petronella
• j: 20-10-1772
• Kamer: Amsterdam
• Kaap: Aankomst: 12-06-1773
• Inventarisnummer: 6571
• Folio: 163
• Kaap
• DAS- en reisnr.: 4149.4

on http://vocopvarenden.nationaalarchief.nl/detail.aspx?ID=1357244

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSQX-M99V-W?i=137&...

His Death Notice states his birth place as "Harken Rode" in "Zaksen". He arrived from Germany 12 June 1773 and was a wagonmaker for the VOC until 1788. He then moved to the George district. In 1816 he became the owner of Geelhoutboom. He died on his farm "Geelhouteboom in Outeniqualand" and left property: "de plads (farm), osse, wagens, paarden en hysraad". He was 96 years old.

• Reference: MyHeritage Family Trees - SmartCopy: Jul 20 2019, 10:12:56 UTC

IMAGES OF DEATH NOTICE 2120

QUESTIONED HANDWRITTEN AGE OF DECEASED CONTAINED IN DEATH NOTICE 2120.

Dear Terry!

First of all thank you very much for your willingness to help. I appreciate!

1. The first sent profile shows that Johann Gottfried Gericke was born in the year 1741.

Name Johann Gottfried Gericke

Geschlecht männlich

Geburt 1741

Zachsen, Holy Roman Empire

Heirat 19. Sept. 1790

Mossel Bay, South Africa

Tod 21. Mrz. 1837

Geelhoutboom, Cape Colony

Ehefrau Anna Barbara Gericke (geb. Gerber) 2. The second profile (Death notice) confuses his date of birth; based on the following:

a. It's a blured document.

b. Is the deceased 91 or 96 years old? It's about this, that I need your expertise!!!

Let me know if you need more details!

Regards!

Thys Müller.

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IMAGES OF DEATH NOTICE 2120

QUESTIONED HANDWRITTEN AGE OF DECEASED CONTAINED IN DEATH NOTICE 2120.

I hereby certify that I have examined, compared and evaluated the above mentioned questioned handwritten age of the deceased contained in Death Notice 2120 of one Johan Godfried Gericke. This included evaluation under microscopic examination.

Based on the above investigation and examination of a non-original copy of the document; it is my opinion that there is a strong probability that the handwritten age of the deceased per the images above is “96”; ninety six. Notwithstanding that the questioned document is a non-original copy; no anomalies of free hand simulation, tracing or digital manipulation were noted under microscopic examination. It is therefore furthermore my opinion that the document is an authentic document.

Terry Elmaleh, B.A., MCSFS (U.K)

Forensic Handwriting Examiner & Analyst – Original Signature pasted into this document 8 March 2021
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Dear Sharon!

Your many inserts, advice and involvement with the discussions did not go unnoticed by me! That's why I appreciate your words: Thys, can you explain specifically what you want me to do, and can you upload the relevant docs to the Sources? The relevant documents to the sources are already loaded. This can be found in the profile of Johan Gottfried Gericke, SV / PROG(Media 14).

1. The first source deals with the death of Johan Gottfried Gericke, SV / PROG's age of 96. The Death Notice confirms that the said was 96 and not 91 years old: The irrefutable evidence was obtained by Terry Elmaleh (B.A., MCSFS {UK.}) Of South Africa's most respected forensic handwriting analysts. (Read Letter from Terry_P 2 of 2.PNG - Posted on April 11, 2021)

Next her finding:-

From TERRY:

IMAGES OF DEATH NOTICE 2120

QUESTIONED HANDWRITTEN AGE OF DECEASED CONTAINED IN DEATH NOTICE 2120.

I hereby certify that I have examined, compared and evaluated the above mentioned questioned handwritten age of the deceased contained in Death Notice 2120 of one Johan Godfried Gericke. This included evaluation under microscopic examination. Based on the above investigation and examination of a non-original copy of the document; it is my opinion that there is a strong probability that the handwritten age of the deceased per the images above is “96”; ninety six. Notwithstanding that the questioned document is a non-original copy; no anomalies of free hand simulation, tracing or digital manipulation were noted under microscopic examination. It is therefore furthermore my opinion that the document is an authentic document.

Terry Elmaleh, B.A., MCSFS (U.K)

Forensic Handwriting Examiner & Analyst – Original Signature pasted into this document.

Yvonne Theron: 5/1//2021:-

Next her source: Wat van die 96 wat ons almal as sy ouderdom op sy sterftekennis gelees het, en gebruik het om by die geboortedatum 1741 uit te kom? Die dame is van mening dat die 6 as 'n 1 gelees behoort te word. Skrywers het destyds sierskrif nageboots en die 1 het puntjie vooraan en ook 'n stertjie/krulletjie agteraan bygekry. (no anomalies of free hand simulation, tracing or digital manipulation were noted under microscopic examination.{(Media 14)} Terry Elmaleh, B.A., MCSFS (U.K)).

2. The second source is about Johan Gottfried Gericke, SV / PROG's father also Johan Gottfried Gericke.(View all - Gericke Johan Godfried doodsert..jpg).

The Death Notice of Johan Gottfried Gericke, SV / PROG shows unequivocally, unchanged and indelibly, that his father was also called Johan Gottfried Gericke. Should we randomly change and modify these documents, we would create a president to change names and surnames.

The source and fact of fatherhood of Johan Gottfried Gericke is the Death Notice of his son.

Yvonne Theron: 5/1/2021 at 5:38 AM:-

Next her sources about the father of Johan Gottried Gericke, SV / PROG:

1. Sy eggenote wat die bron was en wat die sterfkennis slegs met 'n x onderteken het, het moontlik net aanvaar dat haar man se pa ten volle dieselfde name gehad het.

In this regard the following: The Death Notice of Johan Gottfried Gericke, SV / PROG shows unequivocally, unchanged and indelibly, that his father was also called Johan Gottfried Gericke. Should we randomly change and modify these documents, we would create a president to change names and surnames.

2. Ook staan daar dat hy in Harkenrode gebore is - daarom aanvaar ek dat ons nie sy doopdatum in enige ander doopregister hoef te soek nie.

In this regard the following: Take note of this remark:- Because she drew the Death Notice with an X, she made a mistake with her father-in-law's names; yet she knew he was born in Harkerode

To summarize:

a. That Johan Gottfried Gericke, SV / PROG was 96 years old at death. (Read Letter from Terry_P 2 of 2.PNG - Posted on April 11, 2021)

b. That Johan Gottfried Gericke, SV / PROG father was Johan Gottfried Gericke, and not Gottfried Gericke. .(View all - Gericke Johan Godfried doodsert..jpg).

In connection with your question, Thys, can you explain exactly what you want me to do?

What I want you to do; study the sources, be neutral, be objective and if the sources are not convincing, removed them! And that's the solution to the discussion!

Kind Regards!

Thys.

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