John ‘Indian John’ Tidwell

John was a Cherokee man

Biography

John "Indian John" Tidwell was born in the Cherokee Nation (East) about 1815, (Curator Note: use June 26, 1815 from son Pleasant’s Dawes app) the son of Youngdeer, a Cherokee, and Winnie Tidwell, a white woman. He married Betsy Gravitt about 1830. They were the parents of (C)Alitia or "Winnie," (died young), Mancel, and Chinessa. [1] John is believed to have gone to Indian Territory about 1835, but he soon returned to Georgia where he married a white woman named Lucretia Thompson in 1842. [2] There were questions regarding the family's claims to Cherokee ancestry and John and children Chinnesa, Gracy, Lodusea, Mansel, Mary, Pleasant, and Vicky appear only provisionally on the 1851 Siler Roll. [3] John and Lucretia were the parents of Mary, Pleasant, Lodesta, Grace, Vercenoy (Versey,Vicky), John, Marny (Clementine), Sofrona (Sabrina), William, Washington (Pennington), Martha, Minor, Leroy (died in infancy), and Ada. [4] They moved to Indian Territory about 1889 and John was readmitted to Cherokee citizenship in 1890. [5] John and Lucretia, with several children and grandchildren appear on the 1900 Indian Territory census living in the Cherokee Nation. [6] John died March 12, 1903. [7] [8]

Research Notes

The following information appears in daughter Mary White's Eastern Cherokee application: "Mr Chapman says he could not find them. They are on Siler's list rejected. Siler told him [Chapman] that he considered them entitled. Could find no proof of their descent, although General Bansell , a distinguished lawyer of Marietta, considers them of Cherokee origin.... Siler reported that he appears to be half-Indian and poses as "Indian John." Other persons "reliable" said that he is certainly a Cherokee." [9]

Curator Note: the names of John’s children is confirmed by the application Tidwell, Mancel - Application Number 8660.pdf @ https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000196470077867, of son Mancel of first marriage.

Sources

1. ↑ National Archives and Records Administration, Eastern Cherokee Applications of the Court of Claims, Application #8660, Mancel Tidwell, images at Fold3 Mancel
2. ↑ "United States Census, 1850," database with images, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZYK-BMX : 20 December 2020), John Tidwell, Cobb, Georgia, United States; citing family , NARA microfilm publication (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.).
3. ↑ Blankenship Bob, transcriber. Cherokee Roots, Vol. 1, Eastern Cherokee Rolls. Self-published. Cherokee, N.C. 1992. p. 60 Images available at Ancestry.com
4. ↑ Eastern Cherokee Application #16, daughter Mary (Tidwell) White.

5. ↑ Dawes Application #513, digitized at Dawes application #519, digitized at Ancestry.com with Death affidavit
6. ↑ "United States Census, 1900," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSRL-DF3 : accessed 28 March 2021), John Tidwell, Township 16 N. Range 26 E. (east part in 2nd T.), Cherokee Nation, Indian Territory, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 36, sheet 4B, family 29, NARA microfilm publication T623 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1972.); FHL microfilm 1,241,845.

7. ↑ Death affidavit filed with Dawes packet (Curator Note: original digitized only on Ancestry, no clearer copy available)
8. ↑ Find a Grave, database and images (https://www.findagrave.com : accessed 28 March 2021), memorial page for John “Indian John” Tidwell (22 Jul 1815–12 Mar 1903), Find a Grave Memorial no. 104560969, citing Stilwell Cemetery, Stilwell, Adair County, Oklahoma, USA ; Maintained by HGWells (contributor 49850702) .
9. ↑ Eastern Cherokee Application #16, daughter Mary (Tidwell) White. p. 37.

Complete copy of application uploaded to media tab here:

Source: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tidwell-809

Curator Note: United States Census, 1850 see source 2. above…John Tidwell aka Indian John is shown as head of household at the top of the list, Maria is shown at the bottom…this appears to be therefore his mother Winnifred Marie ‘Winney’ Goddard (Tidwell) living in the household of her son by first marriage after the death of husband of he second marriage. The others listed are children of Indian John although it’s unclear who Elizabeth age 5 is, lists of Indian John’s children do not include an Elizabeth!
Maria Tidwell
Female
Age 60
Birth Year (Estimated) 1790
Birthplace Georgia
Race White
Ethnicity American
Event Type Census
Event Date 1850
Event Place Cobb, Georgia, United States
Event Place (Original) Baits, Cobb, Georgia, United States
Household Identifier 551
House Number 551
Line Number 41
Schedule Type 1850 Population
Affiliate Publication Number M432
Affiliate Name The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)

Other People on This Record
John Tidwell M 40 Georgia
Cresa Tidwell F 24 Georgia
Mansell Tidwell M 14 Georgia
Pleasant Tidwell M 6 Georgia
Elizabeth Tidwell F 5 Georgia

Source: "United States Census, 1850", database with images, FamilySearch (ark:/61903/1:1:MZYK-BMX : Mon Jul 03 14:46:14 UTC 2023), Entry for John Tidwell and Cresa Tidwell, 1850.

Ardmore Daily Ardmoreite: 23 March 1903

Source: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tidwell-809 (edited)

__________

Indian John Tidwell produced three children:
1. Calitie,
2. Mancell married Ranchel Levell and
3. Genettie married David D Duley.
After his first wife died in 1838, he married Lucreita Thompson in 1841. He and Lucretia had fourteen children;
1. Pleasant married Martha Carnes,
2. Loduskey Ann married John W. Brown,
3. Mary A married (1) William H White and (2) Thomas H Sheffield,
4. Grace married Samuel L Hughes,
5. Versonoy married William Dunaway,
6. John G.,
7. Marney C married Thomas A Sheffield,
8. Safrona C married (1) Mack Forsyth, (2) Thomas Brown and (3) William Ledford,
9. William married Mary Clonts,
10. Pennington,
11. Martha died at age 1 in 1864,
12. Miner L. married Alice Lovelace,
13. Leroy died while an infant and
14. Ada Tidwell married William Battles.

Source: Paulding County Heritage Book Committee. (1999). The heritage of Paulding County, Georgia, 1832-1999. Paulding County Historical Society.
__________

John listed his children in 1888 in order. * for those on the Dawes, names of spouses added by jpg: This is all from Don Shadburn's Unhallowed Intrusion, pretty much the same as above…
Winnie (dead)
Mansel m. Rachel Levell
Chenettie m. David Dudley
- - - - - - - - - -

• Pleasant m. Martha Carnes

Lodusky m. John W. Brown 2/22/63 Paulding Co. GA
Mary m. William White & Thomas Sheffield

• Gracey m. Samuel Hughes
• Vercenoy m. William Dunaway

John m. Rachel
Marnay Clementine m. Thomas Sheffield 11/13/1879 Paulding Co. GA

• Saphrone Caroline m. 1)Mach Forsyth, 2) Thomas Brown, 3) William Ledford

Wm. E (died 1885) m. Mary Clonts
Pennington
Martha (died 1864)

• Minnie/Minor Loveless m. 1) Alice Lovelace 2)Evelyn Henderson

Leroy Jefferson d. in infancy
Ada m. William Battie

Curator Note: John Tidwell had a white mother and married two white women. Winnie may not have ever actually been married to Young Deer. Her second husband was John Goddard, supposedly mixed-blood but there is no Goddard on the 1835 census. John Tidwell went west before the 1835 Census so was technically an "Old Settler" making him and his descendants ineligible for the Eastern Payment. He didn't stay long in Indian Territory retuning to Georgia in less than a year.

Card D894 is for Martha Tidwell, Pleasant's white wife. I don't think she ever came off the doubtful card, I don't find an allotment for her. They weren't married in the Cherokee Nation and I don't think they ever proved she was eligible. John's wife Lucretia was also disallowed after he died.

and…

The Tidwell's were accepted as Cherokee by the Cherokee Nation so they are Cherokee.

John Tidwell and many (not sure if it's all) of his children were readmitted to Cherokee citizenship in 1888 and was enrolled by the Dawes Commission but he died before the cut off to get an allotment. Dawes Card 519.

Pleasant, Lodusky, Lucretia (mother) Mary all readmitted in 1888,
Saphronia and Versanoy readmitted in 1890

I haven't looked all of them up, but assume all that who went to Indian Territory in time were approved.

Miller rejected them because John was not on the 1835 census and they were rejected by Siler for the same reason. You had to prove direct descent from someone on the 1835 roll in order to qualify for the Eastern payment.