Nest verch Gruffydd

Please see Peter Bartrum: Rhys ap Tewdwr 1; https://www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000173393173903 [Cawley say's she is not the daughter of Gwenllian: https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/WALES.htm#Gruffydddied1137A. Bartrum charts her as Gwenllian's child.] (Steve Ferry, May 21, 2023.)

Please see Darrell Wolcott: Ifor Bach, Lord of Senghenydd; http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id316.html (Steven Ferry, August 4, 2023.)

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This profile states: "Daughter of Gruffydd ap Rhys and N.N., Connected to Gruffydd ap Rhys before 1115."

There is ZERO evidence, contrary to someone on Geni stating that there are mauscripts, that Nest was the daughter of Gruffydd ap Rhys' mistress.

Nest ferch Gruffydd (born 1120/30) is stated in contemporary records such as 'the History of the Welsh Princes' as being "the sister" of Rhys ap Gruffydd 'the Lord Rhys' (born 1132)!!

Furthermore, there are no Welsh documents that describe or document any mistresses of Gruffydd ap Rhys, prince of Deheubarth (died 1137) who bore him any children. His two sons prior to his marriage to Gwenllian ferch Gruffydd (1097-1136), are attributed to the first wife of Prince Gruffydd ap Rhys.

Chroniclers of the time period were very adept at writing down the known longtime mistresses of Welsh Princes. This would certainly be the case of Llywelyn ap Iorwerth (Llywelyn the Great) (1173-1240), whose well known and long time mistress, Tangwystl Goch, is well documented.

It is pure speculation to say that Gruffydd ap Rhys' daughters were the result of affairs with mistresses.

To further highlight the point. King John I of England (died 1216) had several mistresses who were all well documented by chroniclers of the time; while his son, King Henry III (died 1272), never had any illegitimate children or was known to have had any mistresses.

To make the argument that all Welsh Princes had mistresses becuase it was a common practice is simply fallacious, as history proves that premise to be completely untrue. Which was stated in the English kingly example.

Numerous sources have attributed the daughters of Gruffydd ap Rhys to Gwenllian ferch Gruffydd (1097-1136). This includes early choniclers to 19th, 20th, and 21st century genealogical historians. That's a fact.

Thank you, KM