Renauld ‘Reynold l’ de Courtenay

• Not the same as Renauld de Courtenay, Seigneur de Courtenay
• Not the father of Élisabeth de Courtenay

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Family

• Husband 1) of an unknown woman
• Husband 2) of Maud, dame du Sap - married after 1173. She was the daughter of Robert FitzEdith, lord of Okehampton (d.1172) (illegitimate son of Henry I).

Children of Reynold de Courtenay and his unknown first wife:

1. William de Courtenay. Married Avis d’Aincourt?
2. Robert de Courtenay, married 1) Alice de Romley, of Allerdale and Cockermouth 2) Maud FitzUrse
3. Reynold II de Courtenay, ( - d. 27 September 1194) who in 1172, accompanied King Henry II of England on the Irish Expedition to the Wexford. He married Hawise de Curcy (d.1219), heiress of the feudal barony of Okehampton in Devon, and half sister to his father's second wife, Maud du Sap
4. Egeline de Courtenay (also seen as daughter of Reynold ll). Married Gilbert Basset, Baron of Hedington.

Reynold de Courtenay and his second wife had no known children.

Family notes

According to Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came to America before 1700, 8th Edition, 25:28:

N. N. de Tracy (Called Eva in Devon & Cornwall N & Q xix 194-201 but this is perhaps an error for her niece, Eva or Emma de Tracy, who mar. Warin de Bassingbourne); m. say 1165, Gervase de Courtenay who was probably related to Reginald de Courtenay (138-25) as both families gave grants to Tor Abbey and Ford Abbey (the latter abbey having the Courtenay as its chief patron).

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Biography

”He went to England with Henry II in 1151 and was the first of his family to settle there. Through marriage, he obtained large estates in Devonshire. He was in great favour with the English King, fought by his side during the strife with the nobles and was witness to many deeds and charters.”

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Douglas Richardson, Post at SGM, 6 November 2019 < GoogleGroups >

Reynold de Courtenay, of uncertain parentage. He married (1st) an unidentified wife, ____, kinswoman of Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine. They had three sons, William, Robert, and Reynold, and one daughter, Egeline. He married (2nd) after 1173 Maud FitzRobert. He was first recorded as holding lands in Devon in 1175-6. Sometime prior to his death, he granted two islands in the Thames between Witteneiam [?Wittenham] and Wadeiam [?Waddeson] to Abingdon Abbey. He died before Michaelmas 1191. In 1204-5 the king presented to the chapel of Musbury, Devon, which should have been in his widow, Maud's gift. In 1215 the king directed the Constable of Wallingford to deliver to her seisin of the vill of Waddesdon, Buckinghamshire, which formed part of her dower. In 1220 she sued Robert de Courtenay an Reynold de Courtenay (her nephews and step-grandsons) for the manors of Oakhampton, Chawleigh, Chulmleigh, Kenn, and Musbury, and Sampford, Devon and Hemington, Somerset, which she claimed as her right; Robert answered that no claims under French titles were valid; Maud rebutted that the properties were in England and she was English. Maud died shortly before 3 August 1224. In 1227 a mandate was sent to the sheriff of Gloucestershire ordering him to make enquiry of Peter FitzHerbert concerning scutage for the manor of Okehampton, Devon which belonged to Maud de Courtenay.

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Identification

The other Renaud

Peter Stewart explained in a post at SGM, 27 January 2003 < GoogleGroups > “Parents of Elisabeth de Courtenay”

… Despite the legend of a dispute between king and vassal, resulting in Renaud's dispossession and exile to England, there is no documentary evidence that he ever returned from crusade, and since his elder daughter was soon afterwards married as his heiress to the king's brother it may be safer to assume that the seigneur de Courtenay didn't survive the expedition. If he did go back to become the lord of Sutton (father of Renaud #3c above), as in the CP version of events, then this Renaud must have been a very old man when he died towards the end of 1190. On the whole this identification appears fairly weak - if the mysterious father of the English Renaud (#3c) belonged to the same family he was more probably illegitimate than otherwise, maybe a son or nephew of his French namesake (#2). …

Herbert Furman Seversmith argued against the undocumented link shown in CP - but not in Père Anselme - between the French & English families, for reasons that were summarised by William Addams Reitwiesner in a posting of 23 May 2002, as follows:

• "Seversmith's argument that the English Reginald de Courtenay was not the same person as the French Reginald de Courtenay appears on p. 2423, and consists of four parts.
  • First is the chronology, as the English Reginald was born about 1125, while the French Reginald's parents were married around 1095.
  • Second is their personal characters, the French Reginald being a glorified bandit while the English Reginald escaped the notice of any chroniclers, and is known only through charters.
  • Third is their social status, the French Reginald being a nephew of the Count of Odessa and having a daughter who married a son of the King of France (who took her name of Courtenay), while the English Reginald was only the lord of a not very large manor, not a baron, and not even a knight.
  • The fourth is that there is no actual evidence to support the suggestion that they were the same person -- the connection was made by Cleaveland in his 1735 Courtenay genealogy and has been repeated uncritically ever since." ….

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From Colonial families of Long Island, New York and Connecticut, being the ancestry & kindred of Herbert Furman Seversmith., vol.5. Seversmith, Herbert Furman, (1904-Seversmith, Herbert Furman, 1904-,) Page 420-421 < text link > https://hdl.handle.net/2027/wu.89063148589

… While at first, in the earlier years of his association with Henry II, both in Normandy and in England, de Courtenay appears to have held only of the king's gift, he formally received a grant of the manor of Sutton at some date between 1172 and 1178. This was perhaps associated with the wardship of the two daughters of Matilda or Maud d'Avrlanches, which, to- gether with their marriages were given to Reginald de Courtenay after their mother died in 1172. Shortly thereafter Reginald married Matilda Fitz-Ede, , one of the daughters, and by 1178 his son by an earlier wife, Reginald, married Matilda's half-sister, Hawise de Courcy. The senior Reginald de Courtenay died during Michaelmas term (October. December), 1190. Both he and his son Robert, who received the manor Sutton during the term, are recorded successively in the Pipe Roll the term. for Reginald de Courtenay married at least twice, and perhaps three times. The name of the mother of his son Reginald is not known. His last wife, who survived him, was Matilda or Maud 'Fitz-Ede', daughter of Robert Fitz- Ede or Edith, illegitimate son of king Henry I of England and Edith, dau.. of Forn, by Matilda (d'Avranches) de Courcy, widow of William de Courcy. By her he had no known issue. His first wife has been unauthoritatively termed the sister of one Guy de Donjon. Issue, by first wife: 1. William. He had a wife named Ada, who after his death married to Theobald de Lascelles, kt. Issue is said to have included a son Robert, who died without hei'ss of his body. Issue, wife's name unknown: 2. Robert, who paid a relief of 300 marks to the king in 1191 to en. joy in peace ( saving the rights of the heirs of his first born brother William) the manor of Sutton, which had been his fa ther's. William had no heirs to claim the manor, and when Ro. bert died in 1209, also without heirs of his body, the went to his brother Reginald. 3. REGINALD, married Hawi se de Courcy. See page 2, 419. 4. Egelina, married Gilbert Basset. See CURTENAY. second line. manor NOTES See Calendar of Documents in France.

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References

• https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Courtenay-435
• References posted by Douglas Richardson (2019) at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/psv2U0Vkd-s/m/...: Pole, Colls. towards a Desc. of Devon (1791): 2–5 (charter of Maud de Courtenay, lady of Oakhampton; another charter of Reynold de Courtenay granted with consent of Maud his wife). Kennett, Parochial Antiqs. of Ambrosden, Burcester 1 (1818): 277. Coll. Top. et Gen. 1 (1834): 184, 189 (“List of charters in the cartulary of St. Nicholas Priory, Exeter: Coll. Top. et Gen. 1 (1834): 189 (undated charter of Reynold de Courtenay and his wife, Maud; charter witnessed by William and Robert de Courtenay). Hardy, Rotuli Normanniae in Turri Londinensi Asservati (1835): 40. Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum 5 (1846): 377–382 (Ford Abbey, Fundationis et Fundatorum Historia: “Fuit autem iste dictus Reginaldus de Courtney filius domini Flori, filii regis Franciae Ludovici, cognomento Grossi; ac etiam ista Hawisia vicecomitissa uxor ejus secunda, de sanguine regio Anglicano, ex parte dominae Albredae neptis etiam regis Willielmi Bastardi matris aviae suae dominae Adeliciae vicecomitissae primitus memoratae generosae exorta.”). Collectanea Archæologica 1 (1862): 263–284. Bain, Cal. of Docs. rel. to Scotland 2 (1884): 15 (Robert de Courtenay [son of Reynold] styled “kinsman” [cognatus] of Queem Eleanor of Aquitaine). Maitland, Bracton’s Note Book 2 (1887): 133–134, 137–138; 3 (1887): 355–356, 450–452. Notes & Queries 6th Ser. 3 (1881): 1–3; 7th Ser. 4 (1887): 430; 8th Ser. 7 (1895): 441–443. Note-book of Tristram Risdon (1897): 53–56. Round, Cal. Docs. Preserved in France 1 (1899): 316–317. Phillimore, Rotuli Hugonis de Welles Episcopi Lincolniensis 1209–1235 2 (Canterbury & York Soc. 3) (1907): 49. C.P. 4 (1916): 465, footnote b (Courtenay in Gâtinais. The arms of the Courtenays, both English and French, were, Or, three roundlets Gules (with various brisures). These were borne (seals, 1205, 1212) by Pierre, Sire de Courtenay, Count of Nevers, Auxerre, and Tonnerre, s. and h. of Pierre de France, citing Du Bouchet, Maison de Courtenay (1661): 89–99, preuves, 13–15). C.P. 4 (1916): 317 (sub Devon) (ped.) (author alleges without evidence that Renaud de Courtenay, seigneur of Courtenay, living 1149, is the same person as Reynold de Courtenay, died 1190–1, of Sutton, Berkshire). Stenton, Great Roll of the Pipe Michaelmas 1190 (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 1) (1925): 31. Stenton, Great Rolls of the Pipe Michaelmas 1191 & Michaelmas 1192 (Pubs. Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 2) (1926): 162, 276. Curia Regis Rolls, 8 (1938): 32, 213; 9 (1952): 36–37, 71–72, 293–294; 10 (1949): 22, 53. Curia Regis Rolls 9 (1952): 36–37. Seversmith, Colonial Fams. of Long Island, New York & Connecticut 5 (1958): 2419–2424. Darlington, Cartulary of Worcester Cathedral Priory (Pipe Roll Soc. n.s. 38) (1968): 132–133. Keefe, Feudal Assessments & the Political Community under Henry II & his Sons (1983): 104, 109. Schwennicke, Europäische Stanmtafeln 3(2) (1983): 354 (illegitimate children of King Henry I of England); 3(4) (1989): 629. Traditio 41 (1985): 145–179 (author suggests that Reynold de Courtenay above is possibly the “Renaud” or “Renaud Pauper” who witnessed charters dated 1152 and 1155 as “cognatus” [kinsman] for Robert, Count of Dreux, younger son of King Louis VI of France). Kemp, Reading Abbey Cartularies 1 (Camden 4th Ser. 31) (1986): 232; 2 (Camden 4th Ser. 33) (1987): 232–233. Schwennicke, Europäische Stanmtafeln 3(2) (1983): 354 (illegitimate children of King Henry I of England); 3(4) (1989): 629. Slade & Lambrick, Two Cartularies of Abingdon Abbey 1 (Oxford Hist. Soc. n.s. 32) (1990): 170–171 (charter of Reynold de Courtenay dated pre-1194). Hanna, Christchurch Priory Cartulary (Hampshire Rec. Ser. 18) (2007): 281 (charter of Maud de Courtenay dated before 1224). Hanna Christchurch Priory Cartulary (2007): 281. Cornwall Rec. Office: Arundell of Lanherne and Trerice, AR/1/557 (no date [12th century?]; in his court at Cuwyk [Cowick]. Confirmation by Reginald de Courtenay, for the souls of himself and Maud his wife, and of his children and parents, of the gift by Osbert [sic, for Osbern] de Hyduna and Geoffrey his brother, and later by Richard de Hydona and John his son, to the church and canons of Tanton, of the land of Middelduna, as freely as attested by charters of Robert son of King Henry and of John de Hydona; also of a ferling of Madecombe which John de Hydona gave, and of the land of Sinderhull which Agnes daughter of the said Osbert gave; Witnesses: Robert de Courtenay and William his brother, William Dapifer, Henry the chaplain, William de Punchard[un], Guy de Bryan, Anthony de la Bruer', Henry his brother, Richard Ottele [?], 'Hatelinus' de Hydona, William de Hemiok, Henry Hostiar', Simon Delpyt, Roger his brother, Walter Pipinus, Richard son of Brian, Brian his brother, William Talebot, Richard his son, Richard de Hydona, Arnold de Burdeuyle, Robert Anechorus Cophinus (available at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.ukhttp://www.a2a.org.uk/searc...). Devon Rec. Office: Petre, 123M/TB281 (grant dated late 12th c. in fee farm with warranty Matilda de Curtenai lady of Oke [Okehampton] to Ailmar de Siete. Mill of Misbire [Musbury], which was at farm for 18s. annually, to hold at fee farm by hereditary right to Ailmar from Matilda. Rent 20s. Consideration Ailmar’s homage and service --- a certain gold ring and 100s. which Ailmar gave to Matilda in her court of Cuwic [Cowick, St. Thomas’s Exeter] in aid of her --- her relief and fine made to the king. Matilda should warrant the mill for 20s. with all mulcture, land, meadow, pasture, common.) (available at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk). National Archives, DL 34/1/34 (Writ of H[ubert] de Burgh, justiciar, to Hugh de Neville requesting him to restrain the bailiffs of Brill forest from exacting unjust services from Maud de Courtenay and from her manor of Waddesdon, Bucks. Date: 1215–1224) (available at http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.ukhttp:// www.catalogue.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search.asp). Devon Rec. Office: Petre, 123M/TB281 (grant dated late 12th c. in fee farm with warranty Matilda de Curtenai lady of Oke [Okehampton] to Ailmar de Siete. Mill of Misbire [Musbury], which was at farm for 18s. annually, to hold at fee farm by hereditary right to Ailmar from Matilda. Rent 20s. Consideration Ailmar’s homage and service --- a certain gold ring and 100s. which Ailmar gave to Matilda in her court of Cuwic [Cowick, St. Thomas’s Exeter] in aid of her --- her relief and fine made to the king. Matilda should warrant the mill for 20s. with all mulcture, land, meadow, pasture, common.) (available at http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp).
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaud_de_Courtenay (conflates with Renauld de Courtenay, Seigneur de Courtenay)
• Google translate from French, “ Elisabeth de Montlhéry and her descendants (2)” (February 2012) < link >; < in French > “ … It is very difficult to disentangle the true history of the English branch of Courtenay. Over time, various versions have appeared, but all agree in giving a certain Renaud as the head of the Courtenay-England house. Who was he ? Did the character flee France because of his quarrel with the king who reproached him for having favored the infidelity of Queen Eleanor? Here are different interpretations by ancient historians: … “
• Burke's Peerage & Baronetage, 106th Edition, Charles Mosley Editor-in-Chief, 1999, Page: 833. https://hammroots.com/getperson.php?personID=I24680&tree=Main Renaud de Courtenay, Lord of Courtenay; accompanied Louis VII of France on the Second Crusade but quarreled with him so that Louis seized his French possessions and bestowed them, with Renaud's daughter (Elizabeth) in marriage, on his (Louis') own younger brother Pierre; [Renaud subsequently threw in his lot with the English kings and was granted the Lordship of Sutton (now Sutton Courtenay), on the Berks-Oxon borders by Henry II 1161; accompanied Henry II to Wexford in the Irish expedition of 1172; - Disputed] married 1st Hedwige (living 1148-58), sister of Guy du Donjon; [married 2nd Maud, Dame du Sap (dsp 1224), daughter of Robert Fitz Roy (illegitimate son of Henry I of England) by his wife Maud d'Avranches - Disputed]. (Conflates with Renauld de Courtenay, Seigneur de Courtenay)
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Courtenay (Conflates with Renauld de Courtenay, Seigneur de Courtenay)
• “Courtney Myths - Part 2” < link >
• https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Courtenay-57 cites
  • 1. Contrast Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 221, and the other Renaud, in Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. II, p. 314-315.
  • 2. Peter Stewart, 28 Jan 2003 SGM post.
    • Tableaux Genealogiques des Souverains, France 22, Tab. 35
    • The Complete Peerage, G.E.C., Eng. V, v. 3, p. 465, v. 4, p. 317
    • Collins Peerage, Eng. Z-1, v. 6, p. 232-36
    • Edmondson's Baronagum Genealogicum, Eng. AM, v. 4, p. 340
    • Visitations of Devon, Devon 2, p. 243
    • The Plantagenet Ancestry, Eng. 116, p. 59
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutton_Courtenay Sutton became known as Sutton Courtenay after the Courtenay family took residence at the Manor in the 1170s. Reginald Courtenay became the first Lord of Sutton after he had helped negotiate the path of the future king, Henry II, to the throne.[11]
  • 11. http://www.berkshirehistory.com/villages/suttoncourtenay.html The village name of Courtenay derives from the family of that name who took on the manor in about 1177. Sutton was originally one of their major estates, but they inherited important lands in the West Country and their Berkshire home became less significant. They are now the Earls of Devon, and live at Powderham Castle (Dev). It was Reginald Courtenay, a landless young man from a well known family, who first became Lord of Sutton. He had attached himself to Henry of Anjou (later Henry II) and helped negotiate this young man’s way to the English throne which his mother had lost. As a reward, he was given the birthplace of this very woman. She was the Empress Matilda, mentioned previously. It was Reginald’s younger son, Robert, who expanded on the buildings at Sutton by erecting the house known today as 'Norman Hall' in about 1192.
• https://www.sclhs.org.uk/history-of-sutton-courtenay/ In adult life Henry II had a friend Reginald de Courtenay, a French diplomat who hailed from the town of Courtenay, South East of Paris. Between 1175 and 1179, just around the time when the church building began, Henry II signed a charter granting the Manor of Sutton to Reginald de Courtenay. From that date on the village changed its name to Sutton Courtenay.
• https://www.geni.com/projects/Sutton-Courtenay-Manor-Oxfordshire-England/25520 Reynold de Courtenay held lands here in 1160–1, and received a grant of the manor from Henry II at some date between 1175 and 1184. He died about 1191, and his younger son Robert obtained the manor, paying 300 marks to the Crown, and 'saving the right of the heirs of his eldest brother William when they have age.'
• http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~elessar5/genealogy/pafn1777.htm Reginald de Courtenay (along with his son William de Courtenay) went to England upon the King's promise to greatly promote him there. … Soon after his arrival the King arranged the marriages of Reginald and William to his wards, the half sisters, Hawise, daughter of Robert de Abrincis and Matilda, daughter of Robert Fitz Ede. (This needs to be sorted out)
• Contrast Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 221, and the other Renaud, in Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. II, p. 314-315.