Roger IV 'le Poitevin' de Montgommery, seigneur de Montgomery, comte de la Marche

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Roger IV 'le Poitevin' de Montgommery, seigneur de Montgomery, comte de la Marche

Also Known As: ""le Poitevin"", "Lord of Lancaster Roger /De Montgomery/", "Roger /Poitevin/", "Earl Of Lancaster & Arundel", ""le /Poitevin"/", ""The Poitevin"", "Roger de Poitou"
Birthdate:
Birthplace: Marche, Poitou, France
Death: 1123 (60-70)
Charroux, France
Place of Burial: Fatouville-Grestain, Eure, Normandie, France
Immediate Family:

Son of Roger II "The Great" de Montgomery, 1st Earl of Shropshire, Earl of Arundel & Earl of Shrewsbury and Mabile, dame de Bellême et d'Alençon
Husband of Almodis, comtesse de La Marche
Father of Amélie de Montgomery; Pontia de la Marche, héritière de La Marche; Aldebert III de Montgommery, comte de La Marche; Avice Peverell, Countess Lancaster & Nottingham; Boson de La Marche, Iv and 1 other
Brother of Maud Matilda de Montgomery, Comtesse consort de Mortain; Hugh of Montgomery, 2nd Earl Of Shrewsbury; Aimeria Emma de Metz; Robert de Montgomery, 3rd Earl of Shrewsbury; Phillip 'The Grammarian' de Montgommery, Crusader and 5 others
Half brother of Everard de Montgomery

Occupation: seigneur de Montgomery, comte de la Marche
Managed by: Noel Clark Bush
Last Updated:

About Roger IV 'le Poitevin' de Montgommery, seigneur de Montgomery, comte de la Marche

Roger 'le Poitevin' de Montgommery, comte de la Marche

  • Son of Roger II de Montgommerie & Mabile d'Alençon
  • He was the third son of Roger of Montgomery, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury and Mabel de Bellême. The appellation "the Poitevin" was for his marriage to an heiress from Poitou.
  • "Count of Poitou," Count of the March (inherited through his wife), Lord of Eye & Lancaster

Project MedLands, ANGOULEME

ROGER de Montgommery, son of ROGER [II] de Montgommery, Seigneur d'Alençon, Earl of Shropshire and Shrewsbury & his first wife Mabile d'Alençon (-1123). Orderic Vitalis names “Rodbertus de Bellismo, Hugo de Monte-Gomerici, Rogerius Pictavinus, Philippus atque Arnulfus” as the five sons of “Rogerius [de Monte-Gomerici]” and his first wife[94]. “Rogerus comes Pictavensis” founded the priory of Lancaster, for the salvation of “Rogeri Seroberie patris sui matrisque sue Mabilie cometisse”, and donated “duos mansiones Audecliua et Neutona...cum dignitate et consuetudinibus quas ipse habebat et Amfridum de Monte Gomerii” and other specified properties, by undated charter witnessed by “predictus comes et filia eius Sibilla et G. Vicecomes...”[95]. He was a considerable landowner in England especially in Lancashire but was banished in 1102 with his brother Robert and retired to Poitou[96]. Comte de la Marche, de iure uxoris. "Comite Rotgerio et eius uxore comitissa de Marchia" are named in a charter dated to [1113/24] which records an agreement with the monks of Uzerche relating to the appointment of the abbot "in Agidunensi ecclesia"[97]. Married firstly ?. No direct evidence has been found about this possible first marriage. However, Roger’s daughter Sibylle witnessed the charter which records her father’s foundation of the priory of Lancaster (see below) without any of the donor’s other known children. This suggests that she was Roger’s oldest and probably only child at the time, possibly born from an earlier marriage.] married secondly] (before 1091) ALMODIS de la Marche, daughter of AUDEBERT [II] Comte de la Marche & his wife Ponce --- (-[1117/29]). The Chronicle of Saint-Maxence records that "Boso comes de Marchia" was killed "Confolento castro" in 1091 and was succeeded by "Aumodis soror sua", wife of "Rotgerio comite"[98]. "Rotgerius comes et Almodis comitissa" donated property to the abbey of Charroux by charter dated [1090/1100][99]. She succeeded as Ctss de la Marche in 1091. "Aalmodis comitissa Marchiæ et filius meus Boso" confirmed the donation of property "in parrochia Cambartensi et in parrochia Sancti Ylarii de Las Corbas et in parrochia de Trainiaco", held by "patre meo Aldeberto et…avunculo meo Oddone", by "avunculus meus Oddo comes" by charter dated 23 Mar 1112[100]. "Aldebertus comes, filius…Aalmodis comitissæ, frater Bosonis" confirmed his mother’s donation referred to above by charter dated 7 Apr 1113, witnessed by "Almodis comitissa mater Aldeberti…"[101]. "Comite Rotgerio et eius uxore comitissa de Marchia" are named in a charter dated to [1113/24] which records an agreement with the monks of Uzerche relating to the appointment of the abbot "in Agidunensi ecclesia"[102]. A charter dated to [1124/29] relating to a dispute between the abbé de Charroux and the abbesse de Fontevrault refers to a previous donation with the consent of "Almodi comitissa Charofensi ac filius eius Audeberto et Bosone"[103].

Roger & his [first] wife had one child

  • 1. SIBYLLE “Rogerus comes Pictavensis” founded the priory of Lancaster, for the salvation of “Rogeri Seroberie patris sui matrisque sue Mabilie cometisse”, and donated “duos mansiones Audecliua et Neutona...cum dignitate et consuetudinibus quas ipse habebat et Amfridum de Monte Gomerii” and other specified properties, by undated charter witnessed by “predictus comes et filia eius Sibilla et G. Vicecomes...”[104]. The presence of Sibylle as witness, without any of the donor’s other known children, suggests that she was his oldest and possibly only child at the time, maybe born from an earlier unrecorded marriage of her father.

Roger & his [second] wife ALMODIS de la Marche had four children

  • 2. AUDEBERT [III] (-before Feb 1168). "Aldebertus comes, filius…Aalmodis comitissæ, frater Bosonis" confirmed his mother’s donation referred to above by charter dated 7 Apr 1113, witnessed by "Almodis comitissa mater Aldeberti…"[105]. A charter dated to [1124/29] relating to a dispute between the abbé de Charroux and the abbesse de Fontevrault refers to a previous donation with the consent of "Almodi comitissa Charofensi ac filius eius et Bosone"[106]. The Chronicle of Saint-Maxence records that "Rotgerio comite" & his wife had two sons[107]. "Odo comes" donated property to Tulle, with the consent of "fratre meo Aldeberto", by charter dated to [1106][108]. Comte de la Marche. married', daughter of ?. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. 1145.

AUDEBERT [III] & his wife had three children

  • a) AUDEBERT [IV] (-Constantinople 29 Aug 1178, or 1180, or 7 Oct 1187, bur "Barbeu"). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. However, it is hinted by the Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis which records that "Gaufredus de Lesigniaco" claimed to be Audebert's heir[109]. Comte de la Marche 1145. The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records that he sold his properties to Henry II King of England for "quinque mille marchis argenti" and left for Jerusalem, dated to [1178] from the context[110]. Ralph de Diceto’s Abbreviationes Chronicorum record in 1178 that “Albertus comes Marchiæ” sold “suum...comitatum” to the king of England[111]. A charter dated Feb 1179 recounts disputes between the Knights Templars and the Knights Hospitallers, subscribed by "…Adelbertus, comes Marche…"[112]. Henry II King of England confirmed the abolition by "Audebertus comes Marchie" of improper customs established by him over the land of the abbey of Charroux by charter dated to [1180/89], which refers to earlier donations by "Almodis comitissa amita Audeberti" [assumed to refer to the grandmother of Comte Audebert, not an otherwise unrecorded aunt][113]. The Chronicon Bernardi Iterii records the death in 1178 of "Audebertus comes de la Marcha"[114], although this is apparently incorrectly dated if the previously quoted documents are correctly dated. The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records the death "Constantinopoli in Decollatione S. Joannis-Baptistæ" of "Comes de Marchia ultimus Audebertus" and his burial "in Cœnobio…Barbeu" (in 1180 from the context)[115]. One of the fragmentary chronicles of Saint-Marcial records the death "Non Oct" in 1187 of "Audebertus comes Marchie"[116]. The obituaire de Saint-Marcial records the death "III Kal Sep" of "Audebertus comes de Marchie"[117]. married (repudiated) as her first husband, MIRABLE, daughter of ?. The primary source which confirms her marriage has not yet been identified. 1174/77. One of the fragmentary chronicles of Saint-Marcial records the death "Non Oct" in 1187 of "Audebertus comes Marchie", stating that "iste comes" repudiated his wife and, it was said, killed her and her companion secretly[118]. She married secondly Cadelon de Pons. The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records the marriage of "Chalo de Pons" and "uxorem [comitis de Marchia Aldeberti]"[119].

Audebert [IV] & his wife MIRABLE had two children

  • i) MARQUIS (-[1174/78]). "Audebertus comes Marchie" donated property after the death of "filii sui Marquisii" by charter dated to [before 1177][120]. The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records that "comes de Marchia Aldebertus, unici filii morte", dated to [1178] from the context[121].
  • ii) MARQUISE (-after 1187). One of the fragmentary chronicles of Saint-Marcial records the death "Non Oct" in 1187 of "Audebertus comes Marchie", and names "Marquisiam sterilem" as his only surviving child[122]. The primary source which confirms the name of her husband has not yet been identified. m (before 1172) GUILLAUME "Calvus", son of ---.
  • b) BOSON [V] (-1172 or after). The primary source which confirms his parentage has not yet been identified. Comte de la Marche.
  • c) MARQUISE . The Chronicon Gaufredi Vosiensis records that "Guido Vicecomes" married "Marquisia sorore Audeberti Comitis de Marchia" but died childless[123]. m GUY Vicomte de Limoges, son of ARCHAMBAUD [IV] "le Barbu" Vicomte de Comborn & his wife Humberge [Brunissent] de Limoges (-Antioch 1148).
  • 3. BOSON [IV] (-1118). "Aalmodis comitissa Marchiæ et filius meus Boso" confirmed the donation of property "in parrochia Cambartensi et in parrochia Sancti Ylarii de Las Corbas et in parrochia de Trainiaco", held by "patre meo Aldeberto et…avunculo meo Oddone", by "avunculus meus Oddo comes" by charter dated 23 Mar 1112[124]. A charter dated to [1124/29] relating to a dispute between the abbé de Charroux and the abbesse de Fontevraud refers to a previous donation with the consent of "Almodi comitissa Charofensi ac filius eius Audeberto et Bosone"[125]. Comte de la Marche. "Boso consul de la Marcha" donated property to the priory of Aureil by charter dated to [1115][126].
  • 4. EUDES [II] (-1135). "Odo comes" donated property to Tulle, with the consent of "fratre meo Aldeberto", by charter dated to [1106][127]. Comte de la Marche.
  • 5. PONTIA de la Marche . The Historia Pontificum et Comitum Engolismensis names "Pontia filia Comitis de Marcha" as wife of Comte Vulgrin [II] and mother of his successor[128]. Her descendants ultimately inherited the county of la Marche after the death of her nephew Audebert [IV]. married as his first wife, VULGRIN [II] Comte d'Angoulême, son of GUILLAUME [V] TALAFER Comte d'Angoulême & his wife Vitapoi de Bezaunes et de Benauges [Albret] (-16 Sep 1140).
  • 6. [HAWISE de Lancaster (-after 1149). The Cartulary of Darley records the donation of “Avicia de Lancastria uxor W Peverel”, undated[129]. The Complete Peerage speculates that the second wife of William Peveril was the daughter of Roger de Montgommery Lord of Lancaster and his wife Almodis Ctss de la Marche[130]. This is not an ideal fit. Her supposed father Roger was banished from England in 1102 and retired to La Marche, so it is unclear why Hawise would have been described as “de Lancastria” in a charter which must have been dated about 40 years later. In any case, the chronology is unfavourable. It is unlikely that the wife of Roger de Montgommery, Almodis de la Marche, was born much later than 1070, given the known chronology of her family, which means that her children would have been born before 1110 at the latest. On the other hand, it is likely that William Peverel’s second marriage should be dated to the early 1140s at the earliest, as his first wife is named in one of the charters of Stephen King of England (who succeeded in 1135). Such a marriage date is late if his second wife was born in the early 1100s, and impossible assuming that his widow was the same person who married Richard de Morville and had children by him in the late 1150s. According to Domesday Descendants, she married secondly Richard de Morville (no corresponding primary source cited)[131]. The primary source which confirms that the widow of William Peverel was the same person who remarried Richard de Morville has not yet been identified. Domesday Descendants states that the wife of Richard de Morville was Hawise de Lancaster, daughter of William de Lancaster (no corresponding primary source cited)[132]. As can be seen from the chronology of William de Lancaster’s known wife Gundred de Warenne, this affiliation would only be possible if Hawise had been born from an otherwise unrecorded earlier marriage. On the other hand, the onomastics are favourable for this affiliation, as each succeeding generation of this "de Lancaster" family included a Hawise de Lancaster. married [firstly] ([1140/45]) as his second wife, WILLIAM Peveril of Nottingham, son of WILLIAM Peveril of Nottingham & his wife Adeline --- ([1100/05]-after 1155).] [married secondly RICHARD Morville, son of HUGH de Morville & his wife Beatrice de Beauchamp (-1189).]

Roger the Poitevin, by Wikipedia

Roger the Poitevin (Roger de Poitou) was born in Normandy in the mid-1060s and died before 1140.[1] He was an Anglo-Norman aristocrat, possessing large holdings in both England and through his marriage in France.

He was the third son of Roger of Montgomery, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury and Mabel de Bellême. The appellation "the Poitevin" was for his marriage to an heiress from Poitou.[2]

Roger acquired a great lordship in England, with lands in Salfordshire, Essex, Suffolk, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Lincolnshire, Hampshire and North Yorkshire.[3] The principal part of the Lordship was in what was then called inter Mersam et Ripam, that is, "between the Mersey and the Ribble"[4] and is now divided between Lancashire, Merseyside, and Greater Manchester. After 1090, he also assumed the title 1st Lord of Bowland.

Before 1086, he had married Almodis, daughter of Count Aldebert II of La Marche in Poitou, and sister and presumptive heiress of count Boso III who was childless and unmarried.

Roger's lordship extends beyond the Ribble as far as Cumberland

Around 1091, Roger's brother-in-law Boso died, but Roger was apparently preoccupied with Norman and English affairs, and his wife's uncle Odo became count of La Marche.[5]

In 1092 Roger acquired a large part of what is now north Lancashire. These grants gave Roger effective control of all the lands north of the River Ribble to the River Lune, which formed a natural border between the secure Norman lands in England and the strongly contested Scottish frontier lands in Cumberland. Due to long established lines of communication across Morecambe Bay, Roger also assumed authority over the regions of Furness and Cartmel; these remained a part of Lancashire until as recently as 1974. The expansion of Roger's lands followed his support of King William II Rufus's invasion of Cumbria in AD1092, where Dolfin of Carlisle ruled, possibly as a vassal of Scottish King Malcolm Canmore. Dolfin was driven out and the Anglo-Scottish border was established north of Carlisle.

Roger also acquired the great honour of Eye centered in Suffolk.

1088 and After

In 1088, he led a military force with Alan Rufus and Odo of Champagne, against William de St-Calais, bishop of Durham, at the request of William Rufus when the bishop was implicated in a revolt against the king; Roger also negotiated with the bishop on the king's behalf before the bishop went to trial.[1]

Roger's father Roger de Montgomery died in 1094.

In 1094 Rufus sent Roger to hold the castle at Argentan in Normandy, but Roger surrendered it to Philip I of France on the first day of the siege; Roger and his men were held for ransom and purchased their freedom.[5] Though Philip I was an ally of Curthose, it is thought that this action was less a betrayal of Rufus and more a result of Roger's dual vassalage between the King of England and the King of France.[1] Roger did not lose his English lands as a result of this action but held no position in Rufus' government from this point.[6] Roger continued to be loyal to Rufus but in 1102 joined his brothers' failed rebellion against Henry I of England in favor of Robert Curthose. As a result Roger de Poitou lost his English holdings. The King put those in Craven into the governance of Robert de Romille.[7]

Roger then went to his wife's holdings in Poitou. Almodis's uncle Odo was ousted as count of La Marche in 1104, and subsequently the sons of Roger and Almodis are styled as count. In 1109, Roger was permitted to briefly return to England to the court of Henry I,[1] though he did not recover his earlier English holdings. After ca. 1109, Roger appears to have either lost interest in governing in La Marche, or lost the political power itself as he is only seen once in the documents of La Marche as his wife and sons held the authority in the region.

Sources

  • Le Prévost, A. (1845) Orderici Vitalis Historiæ Ecclesiasticæ (Paris) ("Orderic Vitalis (Prévost)"), Vol. II, Liber V, XIII, p. 412.
  • Roper, W. R. (ed.) (1892) Materials for the History of the Church of Lancaster (Chetham Society), Vol. I, p. 8.
  • CP XI 687 footnote d.
  • Uzerche, 83, p. 125.
  • Chronicon sancti Maxentii Pictavensis, Chroniques des Eglises d'Anjou, p. 410.
  • Charroux XV, p. 112.
  • Uzerche, 98, p. 133.
  • Uzerche, 99, p. 134.
  • Uzerche, 83, p. 125.
  • Charroux XXXIII, p. 138.
  • Roper (1892), Vol. I, p. 8.
  • Uzerche, 99, p. 134.
  • Charroux XXXIII, p. 138.
  • Chronicon sancti Maxentii Pictavensis, Chroniques des Eglises d'Anjou, p. 410.
  • Tulle Saint-Martin 351, p. 205.
  • Ex Chronico Gaufredi Vosiensis, 70, RHGF XII, p. 447.
  • Ex Chronico Gaufredi Vosiensis, 70, RHGF XII, p. 447.
  • Historiæ Anglicanæ Scriptores X (1652), Radulphus de Diceto, Abbreviationes Chronicorum, col. 515.
  • Röhricht, R. (ed.) (1893) Regesta Regni Hierosolymitani (Oeniponti) 572, p. 152.
  • Berger, E. (ed.) (1920) Recueil des actes de Henri II roi d’Angleterre et duc de Normandie (Paris) ("Actes Henri II"), Tome II, DCCXXXIII, p. 360.
  • Duplès-Agier, H. (ed.) (1874) Chroniques de Saint-Martial de Limoges (Paris) Chronicon Bernardi Iterii, p. 59.
  • Ex Chronico Gaufredi Vosiensis, 72, RHGF XII, p. 448.
  • Varia Chronicorum Fragmenta, Chroniques de Saint-Martial de Limoges, p. 188.
  • Leroux, A., Molinier, E, and Thomas, A. (1883) Documents Historiques bas-latins, provençaux et français concernant principalement La Marche et Le Limousin (Limoges) Obituaire de Saint-Marcial, p. 75.
  • Chroniques de Saint-Martial de Limoges, Varia Chronicorum Fragmenta, p. 189.
  • Ex Chronico Gaufredi Vosiensis, 70, RHGF XII, p. 447.
  • Charroux XLV, p. 160.
  • Ex Chronico Gaufredi Vosiensis, 70, RHGF XII, p. 446.
  • Chroniques de Saint-Martial de Limoges, Varia Chronicorum Fragmenta, p. 188.
  • Ex Chronico Gaufredi Vosiensis, 47, RHGF XII, p. 434.
  • Uzerche, 98, p. 133.
  • Charroux XXXIII, p. 138.
  • Senneville, G. de (ed.) (1900) Cartulaires des prieurés d’Aureil et de l’Artige, Bulletin de la société archéologique et historique du Limousin, Tome XLVIII (Limoges), Aureil, ("Aureil"), CCCXXV, p. 238.
  • Tulle 351, p. 205.
  • Historia Pontificum et Comitum Engolismensis, XXXVI, p. 56.
  • CP I Appendix I, p. 763, quoting Cartulary of Darley, Cotton MSS, Titus, C 9 f. 116 v.
  • CP I Appendix I, p. 762.
  • Keats-Rohan, K. S. B. (2002) Domesday Descendants: A Prosopography of Persons Occurring in English Documents 1066-1166. II. Pipe Rolls to Cartæ Baronum (Boydell) (“Domesday Descendants”), p. 603.
  • Domesday Descendants, p. 603.
  • Chandler, Victoria (1989) "The Last of the Montgomerys: Roger the Poitevin and Arnulf", in Historical Research, 62 (1989) p. 1-14
  • Lewis, C. P. (1989) "The King and Eye: a Study in Anglo-Norman Politics", English Historical Review, 104 (1989) p. 569-87
  • Cokayne, G. E. (date?) Complete Peerage of England Scotland Ireland Great Britain and the United Kingdom; pp. IV & Appendix I, pp. 762–5
  • Please see Darrell Wolcott: Welsh Origins of the Peverel Family; http://www.ancientwalesstudies.org/id50.html. (Steven Ferry, April 15, 2020.)
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