. . . a single, collaborative world family tree . . .

Ken,

You can ask Google to remove it (but then you would also have to ask Microsoft who also caches and quite a few others as well)
So Eldon and you are right, it is very hard to remove information from the Internet.

We changed our profiles about a year ago to include a "no-cache" directive, in order to address this specific problem. So once Google or Bing figures out that one of our profiles is no longer publicly searchable, it shouldn't be available in cached form, either. It does take some time to replace millions of pages in the search engines, though....

Job. I rather like the silence.

Probably the easiest solution would be to remove the option to make profiles searchable from outside Geni. This would also cause more people to join Geni. Mike Stangel please comment.

That would be disastrous in terms of getting people to join Geni.

OK, my thinking was that they would have to join to see it.

Eldon Lester Clark - re: "Once Google or any search engine has something, it never goes away. It is cached and can be found in the cache without any trouble" -- definitely not so. Web sites keep disappearing. And even when they don't disappear, the info on them often changes. It is one of the reasons I appreciate the ability to in effect have Geni take a picture of it for a Document.

I have tried in vain to find several web sites and/or info that I saw online before Geni did Documents from Links. Everything does not stay.

Mike Stangel: is it disastrous for geni not getting people in that are only curious because they discovered a name they searched for on the internet by using google or bing? Maybe the geni-system could grow far better & steadious with members who ARE & STAY enthousiastic about the special possibilities of this system and the way it is different from f.i. other genealogy sites or porno-poisened facebook. Those members also are the ones that do no bother about contributing with a realistic amount of money for a protected environment to place the information they gathered during sometime a lifelong period. I would have valuable reasons to invite much people in their own environment to join, but now it is a risky adventure to sent invitation-mails to family-members, friends or even collegues, for most of them are very angry about the american-style-marketing- & public- atmosphere they come in. The story Private User tells is not rare, but an example of what a lot of geni-friends experienced themselves. I myself do NOT invite others as long as google- and facebook-links are on the project-pages.
Especially in the beginning of using geni it's most dangerous, for the initial settings of your geni-profile are not very protective against not-disired features... Really hope geni does not become the marketing-tool of a couple of share-holders, but Co-operation Business of thousands, no millions of members coupon-holders world-wide. Succes with the further development of tis nice architecture and be wise with the managing of the precious content ! -jeannette-

Lois Look here to find Google Cache
http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/google-cached-pages-gone

Public vs. Private ??
The statement "Good Fences make Good Neighbors" - is seldom true - be it in your neighborhood, globally or on Geni.

Private profiles (trees): Benefits:
1) New Names and information Added - by Owner or allowed Users
2) Mistakes - only made by Owner or Users allowed

Negatives:
1) Limited collaboration, family invites & messages - from Public profile owners - since most can't be bothered
2) Lack of Tree Growth = generally small trees
3) Restriction of Geni Finding or Building a "Relationship Path" - possibly to Famous Profiles (something young people are usually only interested in)
http://www.geni.com/discussions/101745

Public (big tree):
Benefits:
1) New Names and information Added by Many users
2) Mistakes - can be found and Corrected by Others
3) Great Tree Growth - sometimes even to Famous Relatives from old Rabbinic or Royal families
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~prohel/stories/Ou...

Negative:
1) Errors via Merge, corruption, etc. - "can occur" - but usually they can be Corrected

Conclusion: don't be a Tree-Hugger and let the Forest Grow - you'll be Surprised by the Benefits - of Public Trees :)

Peter, Well Said.

It not about Privat versus Public only, it's about at what time-limit you choose the limit.

Peter,

I generally agree with you. Because my tree is linked to the big tree most profiles are public anyway.
If all changes were logged I would be much more willing to make most profiles public. There still would be an issue about correcting the data. As a basic user that would be impossible for me for most errors. I would almost always have to ask others to do it for me.

Peter.

You are confusing private profiles and unconnected trees. An unconnected tree is one that is not part of the World Tree.

All people will start off with an unconnected tree (unless they were invited). This is not an option - it is how Geni works.

You can have private profiles in the World Tree or in your unconnected tree.

To dislike members having unconnected trees (which you call private trees) implies a total misunderstanding of the purpose of Geni. It is possible that these trees will never become part of the World Tree.

I spent a considerable amount of time assisting with the tree for Viti (Fiji, to Americans) and can assure you that this tree will NEVER become part of the World Tree, unless someone in the future marries someone of European descent.

1) jMU, it's Not about "time-limit" - I rarely see "Need" for Private Profiles - except for very young. Even those I had on my old Public web site - however posting the "Name Only" (applies to All Living individuals) - same rule I apply on Geni. I suppose - if users want to have All information on their Living relatives in the Profiles, have private group Discussions, etc. and use it like a Social Network - there can be a valid point to having those Profiles Private.

2) Job, Perhaps I have been fortunate in our Group - with limited Errors being made - and thus needing Corrections. I think, Errors made by others - is likely based on the Possibility - instead of actual % being made. Protection (restriction, prevention) can be Good - but should always be Balanced - against lost Benefits.

3) Ken, My Private vs. Public (benefits, negatives) comment - did Not Apply to Big tree only. Every 1 of the points - applied to Unconnected Private Trees - as well as Private Profiles Connected to the Big tree. Only if "Geni Does Not succeed with the Big Tree" - will your " Viti (Fiji, to Americans) tree NEVER become part of the World Tree".

ps. I was just pointing out the Benefits of Public profiles - be they Connected (big tree) - or Unconnected.

Peter Rohel (c) : problably never heard of Identity-CRIME on the internet? Here we have already serious problems on cases where the administration of local governments did not give official papers to citizens because passports where asked and given already to maffioso-people....!

Not to mention the reserves we should care about racial aspects of living people, so why does geni ask for my religion or my etnicity? Here it's even forbitten by laws to the government to administrate one's etnicity and I can imagine why. So it makes me rather curious why there are so very many projects about 'jewish' people, for when are you and when NOT? In Holland nearly everyone has jewish genes in their vessels, but a very amout was christenisted & baptised already ages ago. Do we really have to search for maternal lines to be sure we are also of the chosen people the Messiah promised a new land and a better future -in heaven of here?

So I am very, very, very restricted to add living persons and fill in all kind of information about them I do not learn from themselves and then set them PUBLIC on the internet by way of linking them -googleble- in geni. Lets be very wise with the content and the PRIVACY of others ! It's hard enought to keep your own information hided for hackers and crackers. -jeannette-

jMU (Jeannette),

1) of course I heard of Identity Theft, even had someone buy a computer in New Your for $2400 and ship it overseas - using my stolen credit card number. Government bureaucrats are being forced to improve their practices - to prevent Identity Theft - just because someone finds the Maiden name of the mother or other easily found information on the Internet & elsewhere.

2) I did not mention: nationality, race or religion - just Public Profiles benefits on Geni. I don't fill-in many of the optional fields like religion, race, cause of death, etc. for the Dead or Living - it's No Ones Business.

3) I do however like to see the: continents, countries, race, ethnicity, families, religions, etc. - my Ancestors, relatives Resided in and/or Belonged to - and the further back in time I can find Links, the better (it's a hobby, that's all.

ps. Perhaps I am naive - but If good people become afraid of bad people everywhere & on all mediums - bad people automatically win.

Peter, I agree. Let's keep speaking up against the privacy nuts. The most dangerous people out there are the ones who don't want their information available -- the Ted Kazcynskis and Osama bin Ladens. No one has ever been hurt by genealogy.

Jeannette, What exactly bothers you about the Jewish projects? Is it just your general anti-Semitism? or some more specific kind? Perhaps you aren't aware that Jews were treated a bit differently than other people in the recent and not-so-recent past. This includes differences in record-keeping, which make our task as genealogist sometimes easier (for example, centralized records, or cemetery plots not reused) and sometimes harder (as when 2/3 of all European Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis and the remainder were dispersed throughout the world). Also, Jewish communities tended to be endogamous, which is what you will find if you search through http://www.geni.com/projects/Jewish-Families-from-Prague or http://www.geni.com/projects/Jewish-Families-of-Vienna

Or maybe what upsets you is that Jewish genealogy is just a whole lot more interesting and fun? If you crack open the bible next in your nightstand you'll find that we've been doing this for a few thousand years too.

By the way, you may not have any connection to indigenous people in Southwest Asia, but (as a result of Jews fleeing the Nazis, that pesky Jewish thing again) I have a third cousin who married a native New Guinean and so their kids connect to that part of the world tree. Before long, everyone will be connected, whether they like it or not.

Randy.

If you've been following this discussion, setting profiles to Private is not about secrecy - it is about data protection.

When Geni can provide revision data on ALL material, when Geni can notify the originator when it has changed, when Geni can notify the originator when it has been deleted, then perhaps members may not set their profiles to Private.

Right now, Geni appears to have no plans for protecting data beyond the basic details.

I have lost a large amount of info, I'll never know who did it, I can't identify what has changed or has been deleted. I won't be replacing it.

Geni changed this in August. If you want profiles set to Public, why not insist that Geni revert to the pre-August situation?

Ken,

How about applying for this:
http://www.geni.com/corp/job-listings/quantitative-product-analyst/

Everyone keeps harping on about privacy. I would rather harp on about data protection, which should be fundamental to a site such as this.

Anyone reading this may already be affected, and would not know. For example, do you still have all the documents that you entered into the site? How do you know?

Job.

Oddly, that is very close to my occupation before I retired.

As my father always says, " you have to take the good with the bad." You all get the benefit of people improving the data on your profiles, and with that comes the risk that there might be some bad changes or lost data. I'm ok with that, although I do think it would be nice to get more notice of changes from geni. We get notices on deletion now, thank goodness.

I like the idea of "improving the data on your profiles" - I haven't found any improvements yet, but I've found many negatives.

In previous centuries infant mortality was high. It was the norm to give the next-born the same name as the deceased. As an example, one of my ancestors had four children all named Judith, which is a very sorry sign.

This situation repeats in the various branches of the tree.

Some kind, thoughtful, considerate Geni-ite went through all the branches of the tree, and merged all these children into one. Amazing, since they all had different birth years.

I mention this, as it has been mentioned by others in other discussions.

Randy, I haven't seen one enhancement to the tree, but I've seen much tampering by Geni-ites who have nothing to do with this part of the tree.

you know curators could make them into master profiles so it would be impossible to merge them together right? geni does have data protection abilities if you just ask one of us

Ken, A common mistake, but then again, it's hard to get too upset about it. Since the kids don't have spouses or descendants, no one but you will miss them. In the future, you might want to call them Judith 1, Judith 2, etc, to differentiate them and avoid problems. Again, take the good with the bad. Have you really learned nothing through collaboration on geni? That's not my experience. Maybe you need to branch out more.

Re: double names in one generation form the same parents.. Logic should tell us that the child that has a death date and/or a wife has to be the second one born with the same name, yes? This is why I like the order of birth, and the ability to number the children sequentially. But it seems you can only do that, or Geni does it for you as you enter the names. to put that info in after the names have already been entered by anyone else, cannot be done any more, Nor can one change the order of marriage without a date, even if you know it is the first or second or third spouse.

Randy - If you have a different, primary (for you) program where you have your Genealogy data, and Geni is just where you put the info you want to share with the World, this attitude of yours of not caring much about changes and errors introduced by others makes sense to me.

But do you really feel it makes sense for those of us using Geni and no other Genealogy programs?

yes you can change the order of marriage without a date

Sally, You can change the birth order of children. On the first page of the edit profile is the option to set it and you have a list of all the siblings with birth dates so it is easy.