Descendentes de luso-flamengos

Acabei de ver esse debate e percebi que tenho interesse em sua temática. Meu avô é descendente dos Dutra de Moraes. Os Moraes eu já sei de onde vem: Baltazar de Morais de Antas.

Mas o Dutra eu ainda não identifiquei. Minha primeiras pesquisas apontaram exatamente para o caminho sugerido por George J. Homs. Pelo que li, Dutra é uma forma aportuguesada de Van Ultrecht. Migrantes com origem na cidade de Ultracht teriam chegado aos Açores e eram ditos D'Ultrecht. A forma evoluiu para Dutra.

Pelo que tenho notícia, há Dutra por todo o Brasil. Os meus ancestrais com esse nome têm origem em São Paulo e Minas Gerais, de onde chegaram ao Rio de Janeiro.

Mas no nosso ex-presidente @Eurico Gaspar Dutra, 16º Presidente do Brasil, tinha origem em Cuiabá, no Mato Grosso do Sul.

Estou interessado em ter contato com as informações dos Dutra dos Açores. Abraços! :-)

Hola Diego,
If the Dutra ancestors came through Faial, and if they related to Joost van Hurtere, Joz de Utra, then the origin is de family name "de Hurtere". Unfortunately, history doesn't seem to tell us more (right now) than his grandfather de Hurtere. But, it doesn't seem plausible that "de Hurtere" would be derived from "van Utrecht" or "d'Utrecht".
Having said that, if the Dutra ancestors did not come through Faial, then everything is possible, of course. It would mean that there are at least two very distinct Dutra families, unrelated to one another.
For the sources on the Faial Dutra, it seems that various historians have established this de Hurtere origin. The de Hurtere were a noble family, and it's because of their importance in the region of Bruges that they were in touch with the power circles of that time, and thus also were able to obtain advantages from Lisbon when Portugal wanted to settle the Açores.
Variables on the name "de Hurtere" are found all the way to 1166 in the city of Gent, but historians have no good information to connect many of these de Hurtere to one another. It may require more focused work in the archives in Flanders.
A Flemish specialist assumes that the name de Hurtere may be derived from an old Flemish word meaning to ram or to push, which may have been a way to describe the first carrier of that name as someone pretty strong during fighting. But, nothing scientific there, of course :-)

Thanks, George! I found on the web this text in portuguese that transcribes an article about Dutra in the Azorean Encyclopedia:

“Dutra (Utra ou d’Utra) Da ilha do Faial

Precedem de Léo Van Hurtere, fidalgo flamengo, bailio de Wynandael e senhor de Haeghebrouc, residente em Bruges nos meados do século XV. O seu filho herdeiro, Bartolomeu Van Hurtere, seguiu a carreira das armas, militando nos exércitos de Filipe “o Bom”, Duque de Borgonha e marido da infanta portuguesa D. Isabel, filha de D. João I, e do filho de ambos, Carlos, “o Temerário”. Um outro seu filho (talvez secundogénito), Josse Van Hurtere, conhecido em Portugal como Jorge d’Utra, terá herdado o senhorio de Moerkerk e outras terras na Flandres, que vendeu posteriormente para financiar a colonização da ilha do Faial. Iniciou a sua carreira na Corte de Borgonha, onde terá desempenhado o cargo de panadeiro-mor da Duquesa D. Isabel de Portugal, por cuja influência se terá deslocado a Lisboa em data posterior a 1467. São divergentes, e contraditórios, os relatos das circunstâncias em que obteve a capitania das ilhas do Faial e Pico, e a própria carta da concessão se extraviou. De acordo com Jerónimo Münzer, que foi seu hóspede, residiu em Lisboa, numas boas casas próximas do convento de S. Domingos, e está documentado como cavaleiro da casa do infante D. Fernando, filho adoptivo e herdeiro do infante D. Henrique. Não constam dos arquivos onde se conserva a documentação relativa às relações entre Portugal e a Borgonha quaisquer documentos que confirmem, ou desmintam, o patrocínio alegadamente prestado pela duquesa Isabel de Portugal ao povoamento flamengo dos Açores em geral, ou das ilhas do Faial e Pico em particular. No entanto, várias fontes referem uma primeira viagem exploratória ao Faial levada a cabo por Jorge d’Utra e umas dezenas de flamengos, atraídos pelo rumor da existência de interessantes recursos minerais. A constatação da inexistência de metais preciosos terá originado conflitos que teriam estado na origem do estabelecimento de Jorge d’Utra em Lisboa. Na capital portuguesa casou com Brites (ou Beatriz) de Macedo, natural de Arraiolos, ou Borba, e filha de Jerónimo Fernandes, criado do duque de Bragança. Pretendem alguns que a capitania das ilhas do Faial e Pico lhe tenha sido doada, por iniciativa da infanta D. Beatriz, mulher do infante D. Fernando, a cuja casa pertenceria a noiva, como dote, ou por intermédio de um clérigo flamengo da Corte de D. Afonso V, a quem ela estaria inicialmente destinada, o que parece pouco verosímil. Como quer que fosse, é pacificamente aceite que o infante D. Fernando outorgou a Jorge d’Utra a capitania hereditária das ilhas Faial e Pico e, embora a carta original se tenha extraviado, temos conhecimento indirecto de excertos dela, citados na demanda movida pelo seu bisneto Jorge d’Utra Corte-Real, que pretendia suceder na capitania. Subsistiu também uma carta de sesmaria, redigida no Faial, a 12.1.1486, em que Jorge d’Utra se nomeia como «cavaleiro da Casa do senhor Duque e Capitão por ele em suas ilhas do Faial e Pico».”

Link to the source: http://www.mundoacoriano.com/index.php?mode=noticias&action=pri...

Indeed, Diego, that source is totally consistent with what the researchers in Bruges confirm! I have about three pages in Dutch that describe the origins of the de Hurtere in the region of Bruges. I could translate it, but only if there's an interest. Perhaps it would be useful only if there would be a Dutra project, to which any descendants could relate?

A project could be a good idea! My Grandfather was José Dutra de Moraes but I still can not go beyond @Francisco Dutra de Moraes, my 4th great grandfather (b.1768 / d.1824)

Could you post here or send me a e-mail with the text in dutch? Google Chrome translates! :-) My e-mail is diegomoreirageo@gmail.com

I'll send to your email, Diego!

Or better, here's the link for everyone... http://www.bparah.azores.gov.pt/genealogias/genealogias+a.clayes/pd...
The Dutra section starts at page 4.

Thanks!

Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra is my 60th great grandfather/grandmother.

Hi George, I think you found a lost- treasure in this Bruges files. Maybe now you get the real meaning of the name "wolf caves" and I, at last, do find the flemish origen of the "Silveira" azorean roots of my family tree.and all over the Rio Grande do Sul. Exemple: the great genealogy site of the cousin Valdenei Corrêa da Silveria, in french, at the GeneaNet: http://gw5.geneanet.org/valdenei?lang=fr;pz=valdenei+correa;nz=silv...
Greetings from Brasília, Deisi

Hi. Where it says "Na capital portuguesa casou com Brites (ou Beatriz) de Macedo, natural de Arraiolos, ou Borba, e filha de Jerónimo Fernandes, criado do duque de Bragança. "
"Criado" of the Duke of Braganza would mean to be from a very close and noble family of the realm, I have studied Spanish History and that is what it means, the families used to send young to the Court of the Kings to live there and develop or maintain strong links to the royal House. I wanted you share this as in modern language, 'criado" it can be misleading, in Spanish and perhaps in Portuguese also.

in mordern times criado is servant
in old times yes too but not really the same ,low ranking servent would be called "serviçal" ,criado would ment good families girls or boys working but too being brought up in king or high nobility household

"Ercilla's great work is La Araucana, an epic poem of thirty-seven cantos, describing the difficulties encountered by the Spaniards during the insurrection in Arauco, and the heroic deeds of the natives as well as his companions" Ercilla was born into a Basque noble family. His father was Fortuño García de Ercilla, and his mother Doña Leonor de Zúñiga, both from Bermeo (Biscay). In 1548, after his father's death, his mother became lady-in-waiting to the Infanta María and made young Alonso a page to the heir-apparent, Prince Philip (afterwards King Philip II). Ercilla received a very thorough education, for, besides having the most learned teachers, he enjoyed the advantages of very extensive travelling and of living at court where he came in contact with high personages. When he was only fifteen he accompanied Philip through Italy and Germany; and their travels lasted three years. Later, Ercilla accompanied his mother to Bohemia where he left her and then visited Austria, Hungary, and other countries. Returning to Spain, he soon started out again with Philip. In this capacity Ercilla (sometimes spelled Arcilla) visited Italy, Germany and the Netherlands, and was present in 1554 at the marriage of his master to Queen Mary I of England.""

I""n London, he made the acquaintance of Jerónimo de Alderete (1555), whose stories of his thrilling adventures in the New World so fired Ercilla's imagination that he determined to accompany Alderete to the New World. He therefore obtained leave from Philip, and they set sail for America, 15 October 1555. Soon after their arrival, however, Alderete died (near Panamá, April 1556). Ercilla continued on his way to Peru, and in 1557 hearing that an expedition was preparing to subdue the Araucanians of Chile, he joined the forces of García Hurtado de Mendoza, who had recently been appointed Governor of Chile."" Wiquipedia""

Diego de Moraes Moreira (C), maioria dessas famílias açorianas que vieram para o Brasil têm origem holandesa. Já identifiquei vários que estão sem conexão na árvore. Nossa que "achado".
Tks, George J. Homs

Bacana, né, Private User? Muito bom!

João Simões Lopes, Filho este é o Debate dos Dutra.

Desculpa, Private User

Cleopatra VII Philopator, Pharaoh of Egypt
she is my 62nd great grandmother

with Marcus Antonius "Mark Antony" as, my 62nd great grandfather

HI Susan, here I'm again. Now about your 62 generations to Cleopatra. How can ithat be so distant from my 51(or 52) generations ? I invite to check out the entanglement we still have in the ordinal numbers of the roman emperors generations. Specially behind Constantine I and his english-christian wife Saint Helen, father and mother of Constantine II, The Great Roman Emperor who officialized and orquestrated her religion - from Rome, no more from England - distorting its primitive authenticity
and, at the same time, the roman empire power-soul to face the strenght of "primitive-chistian-anglo-saxions-barbarians" with an astonishing number of Saints in the very same 42nd generation:
------------------------------------------42----------------------------------------------------
Constantius I Chlorus, Roman Emperor, is your 42nd great grandfather Constantius I Chlorus, Roman Emperor
Saint Helena of the Cross, wife of Constantius I Chlorus, Roman Emperor, is your 42nd great grandmother Saint Helena of the Cross
Sextus Anicius Faustus Paulinianus, is your 42nd great grandfather Sextus Anicius Faustus Paulinus
Cuthwine, born c. 565, was a member of the House of Wessex, is your 42nd great grandfather Cuthwine
Piniktios I, Prince of Abkhazia, is your 42nd great grandfather Piniktios I, Prince of Abkhazia
Hildeoc, King of the Lombards is your 42nd great grandfather Hildeoc, king of the Lombards
Chlodégar, King of the Franks at Cologne, is your 42nd great Chlodégar, king of the Salian Francs at Cologne
Filimer, King of the Baltic Goths, is your 42nd great grandfather Filimer, King of the Baltic Goths
Amr Mazaykiya Tarifa ibn 'Amr Ma' Al-Sama, is your 42nd great grandfather ʿAmr Mazaykiya Tarifa ben ibn 'Amr Ma' Al-Sama
Jorund, King of Uppsala & Sweden Yngvasson, is your 42nd great grandfather King Jörund Yngvasson of Uppsala
Ottar Egilsson, "Vendelkråka", king in Uppsala Sweden, is your 42nd great grandfather Ottar "Vendilkraka" Egilsson King in Egilsson, King of Uppsala
Hingmar (Ivar), Norway, 768/828, is your 42nd great grandfather Hingmar (Ivar) Sveidesson
Eystein* / Øystein /Östen Adilsson, king in Uppsala, Sweden, is your 42nd great grandfather Eystein "kráku Konungurinn" Adilsson, King of Uppsala
Saint Rusticius, Archbishop of Lyons, is your 42nd great grandfather Saint Rusticius, archbishop of Lyon
Llywarch ap Elidir, Brenin Rheged, is your 42nd great grandfather Llywarch ap Llywarch Hen
Gabhran mac Domangart, Rí na Dál Riada, is your 42nd great grandfather Gabrán mac Domangart, Rí na Dál Riada
Eochaid Buide mac Aidan, Rí na Dál Riata, is your 42nd great grandfather Eochaid Buide mac Aidan, Rí na Dál Riata
Dyfnwal ap Ednyfed is your 42nd great grandfather Dyfnwal Hen ap Ednyfed
Hunuil of the Goths, is your 42nd great grandfather Hunuil of the Goths
Attila "Scourge of God", 59th King of the Huns, is your 42nd great grandfather Attila the Hun, "Scourge of God", King of the Huns
Chrenchildis ("Kriemhild") Дуло, (Hildico, Gudrun), wife of Attila "Scourge of God", 59th King of the Huns, is your 46th great grandmother Kriemhild, {Nibelungenlied}
Filimer, King of the Baltic Goths, is your 42nd great grandfather Filimer, King of the Baltic Goths
Ribrawst verch Vortigern, daughter of Vortigern ap Gwidol, High King of Britain, is your 42nd great aunt Ribrawst verch Gwrtheyrn
Magnus Felix, Magnus Ennodius Felix D' ARLES Bishop of Pavia, is your 42nd great uncle Magnus Felix
Gundobad, King of the Burgundians, barbarian general during the last days of the Roman Empire in the west, he murdered his brother Chilpericis your 42nd great uncle
St. Brychan Gododdin, Brenin Brycheiniog is your 42nd great uncle St. Brychan Gododdin, Brenin Brycheiniog
Tudhistil verch Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Tudglid verch Brychan, Saint
Meleri verch Brychan, Saint is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Meleri verch Brychan, Saint
Saint Gwawl ferch Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Saint Gwladys, Princess of Brycheiniog Wales, Queen-Consort of Gwynllwg Wales
Gwrgon Goddeu verch Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Unknown Profile
Nefai or Neffei ap Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's son Nefai or Neffei ap Brychan, Saint
St. Nennocha Wencu Gwengustle ap Brychan is your 42nd great uncle's daughter St. Nennocha Wencu Gwengustle verch Brychan
Pasgen . ap Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's son Pasgen . ap Brychan, Saint
Gwladys . verch Brychan, Saint is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Gwladys verch Brychan II
Rhain Dremrudd ap Brychan, Saint, Brenin Brycheiniog is your 42nd great uncle's son Rhain Dremrudd ap Rhain
St. Cynan Ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Cynan Ap Brychan
St. Cynbryd . ap Brychan is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Cynbryd . ap Brychan
Envail . verch Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Envail . verch Brychan, Saint
Hychan . ap Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's son Hychan . ap Brychan, Saint
Gwendydd . verch Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Gwendydd . verch Brychan, Saint
Dogvan . ap Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's son Dogvan . ap Brychan, Saint
Elined or Eiliwedd verch Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Elined or Eiliwedd verch Brychan, Saint
Rhun . ap Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's son Unknown Profile
Goleuddydd . verch Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Goleuddydd . verch Brychan, Saint
Gwen . verch Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Gwen . verch Brychan, Saint
St. Cledog Clitaucus ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Cledog Clitaucus ap Brychan
Tydiau . verch Brychan, Saint, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter Tydiau . verch Brychan, Saint
St. Ceindrych or Cerddych verch Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter St. Ceindrych or Cerddych verch Brychan
St. Cymhorth or Clydai verch Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter St. Cymhorth or Clydai verch Brychan
St. Cyvlevyr or Cylflifer ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Cyvlevyr or Cylflifer ap Brychan
St. Cymhorth or Clydai verch Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter St. Cymhorth or Clydai verch Brychan
St. Cenedlon . verch Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter St. Cenedlon . verch Brychan
St. Cadog . ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son Saint Cadoc the Wise, Welsh Prince of Gwynllwg, Abbot of Llancarfan
St. Dyvnan . ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Dyvnan . ap Brychan
St. Caian . ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Caian . ap Brychan
St. Dwynwen . verch Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter St. Dwynwen . verch Brychan
St. Ive or Sion or Johannes ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Ive or Sion or Johannes ap Brychan
St. Lanent Lelant ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Lanent Lelant ap Brychan
St. Curig or Keri ap Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's son St. Curig or Keri ap Brychan
St. Adwen . verch Brychan, is your 42nd great uncle's daughter St. Adwen . verch Brychan
---------------------------------------------------------------43°----------------------------------------------------------------------

AS WE can see, that married couple WAS in the 42nd ggf/ggm generation of the family tree, both of them:

Constantius I Chlorus, Roman Emperor, is your 42nd great grandfather Constantius I Chlorus, Roman Emperor
Saint Helena of the Cross, wife of Constantius I Chlorus, Roman Emperor, is your 42nd great grandmother Saint Helena of the Cross

BUT NOW she is 42nd great grandfather's 2 wife:

Constantius I Chlorus, Roman Emperor is your 42nd great grandfather Constantius I Chlorus, Roman Emperor
Saint Helena of the Cross is your 42nd great grandfather's 2nd wife
Saint Helena of the Cross
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

AND SUCH confusion remains for several generations, at least back to Marcus Antonius, Cleopratra and her pharaoh father:

Marcus Antonius, "Mark Antony", is your 51st great grandfather's wife's great grandfather Marcus Antonius "Mark Antony"
Triumvir, General Markus Antonius av Romarriket, is your 51st great grandfather's wife's great grandfather's wife's husband Marcus Antonius "Mark Antony"
Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator, Queen of Egypt, is your 51st great grandfather's wife's great grandfather's 5th wife Cleopatra VII Philopator, Pharaoh of Egypt Cleopatra VII Philopator, Pharaoh of Egypt?through=6000000005980497729
Ptolemy XV 'Caesarion' Philopator, Philometer, Pharaoh of Egypt, is your 51st great grandfather's wife's great grandfather's wife's son Ptolemy XV 'Caesarion', Pharaoh of Egypt
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Marcus Antonius "Mark Antony" is your 54th great grandfather Marcus Antonius "Mark Antony"
Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator, Queen of Egypt, is your 54th great grandfather's 5th wife Cleopatra VII Philopator, Pharaoh of Egypt?through=6000000001336650473
Ptolemy Philadelphus, Prince, son of Cleopatra VII, Queen of Egypt and Roman Triumvir Mark Antony , is your 54th great uncle Ptolemy Philadelphus Cleopatra Selene II, Queen of Mauretania, daughter son of Cleopatra VII, Queen of Egypt and Roman Triumvir Mark Antony, is your 54th great aunt Cleopatra Selene II, Queen of Mauretania
Ptolemy XV 'Caesarion' Philopator, Philometer, Pharaoh of Egypt, is your 54th great grandfather's wife's son Ptolemy XV 'Caesarion', Pharaoh of Egypt?through=6000000001336610897

Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator, Queen of Egypt is your 60th great grandmother.
You
→ Astrid Rasmussen
your mother → Marta Larsen
her mother → Nilla Andersson
her mother → Johan Julius Bergman
her father → Catharina Eleonora Bergman
his mother → Gustava Magdalena Maria Ehrenstråhle
her mother → Maria Elisabet Uggla
her mother → Bengt Uggla
her father → Märta Lilliehöök af Gälared och Kolbäck
his mother → Anna Ekeblad
her mother → Christopher Johansson Ekeblad
her father → Anna Christoffersdtr (Forstena)
his mother → Christoffer Torstensson (Forstena)
her father → Anna Gudmundsdotter (Bagghufvud)
his mother → Gudmund Torbjörnsson
her father → Torbjörn Esgersson Gumsehuvud
his father → Ingrid Siggesdotter Gumsehuvud
his mother → Sigge Birgersson (gumsehuvud)
her father → Birger Siggesson (gumsehuvud)
his father → Sigge Guttormsson
his father → Ingrid Guttormsdatter Rein
his mother → Guttorm Åsolvsson på Rein
her father → Åsolv Skulesson på Rein
his father → Skule Tostesen Kongsfostre
his father → Judith 'Fausta' de Flandre
his mother → Baldwin IV Fairbeard, Count of Flanders
her father → Rozala d'Italie, reine consort de France
his mother → Berengar II, King of Italy
her father → Gisela del Friuli
his mother → Berengario I, re d'Italia
her father → Gisèle of the West Franks
his mother → Emperor Louis I 'The Pious', son of Charlemagne & Hildegard
her father → Charlemagne
his father → Pépin III "le Bref", King of the Franks
his father → Charles "Martel", Prince of the Franks
his father → Pepin II d'Héristal, Mayor of the Palace of Austrasia
his father → Ansigisel de Metz, Mayor of the Palace of Austrasia
his father → Saint Arnoul, Bishop of Metz
his father → Bodegisel II, duke of Aquitaine
his father → Saint Gondolfus, Bishop of Tongres
his father → Arthémia of Geneva
his mother → Arthémie de Lyons
her mother → Saint Rusticius, archbishop of Lyon
her father → Aquilinus
his father → N.N. de Lyons
his father → Artemia de Clermont-Ferrand
his mother → Tetradius, Bishop of Clermont
her father → lamblichus II of Apamaea
his father → Himerius III of Apamaea
his father → Urania
his mother → Iamblichus of Emesa
her father → Uranius II Antonius Sampsigeramus, King of Emesa
his father → Uranius I Antoninus, Priest-King of Emesa 210
his father → Sulpicius, Priest-King of Emesa
his father → Iamblichus of Emesa
his father → Soaemus, Priest-King of Emesa
his father → Sampsigeramus III Silas, Priest-King of Emesa
his father → Alexio II, Priest-King of Emesa
his father → Drusilla of Mauretania
his mother → Ptolemy II -egypt, King of Mauretania
her father → Cleopatra Selene II, Queen of Mauretania
his mother → Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator, Queen of Egypt
her mother

Hi Lise, thanks for your help. Now I know what - but not why - happens here:

1. Through her father link on the path of Celopatra Selene II(my 60th great grandmother)...

Cleopatra Selene II, Queen of Mauretania is your 60th great grandmother Cleopatra Selene II, Queen of Mauretania

2... I only can get her mother Celopatra VII(my 61th great grandmother)...
Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator, Queen of Egypt is your 51st great grandfather's wife's great grandfather's 5th wife Cleopatra VII Philopator, Pharaoh of Egypt

3... as my 51st great grandfather's wife's great grandfather's 5th wife, because her husbund Marcus Antoniu...

Cleopatra VII Thea Philopator, Queen of Egypt is your 51st great grandfather's wife's great grandfather's 5th wife Cleopatra VII Philopator, Pharaoh of Egypt

4... so, I ask for help: how can I get the path of Cleopatra VII as my 61th great grandmother ?

Cool work, George!

Hello, past participants in this discussion.
I have set up a "workshop"-project here... http://www.geni.com/projects/Workshop-Os-Flamengos-nos-A%C3%A7ores/....
There you will see the outcome of a couple of weeks of emails between the earlier mentioned André Claeys, myself, and the director of archives at Angra do Heroismo.
I'll start any moment now with translating the research by André Claeys, and Lucia Pilla will join in whenever possible to take my English translations to Portuguese.
The resulting work will be published on the website of the government of the Açores.
Please follow the project to see future progress - or for new discussions.
One fundamental idea is that we might, collectively, take the research further and expand to other currently undocumented Flemish ancestors for the Açores. In that respect, also check the project initiated by Dalton Holland Baptista at http://www.geni.com/projects/Antigos-Imigrantes-de-Flandres-para-os....

Private User leia este Debate interessante.

Debate muito interessante. Parabéns / Congratulations !!!

https://youtu.be/dV2q6DG7340