Charles Marais, SV/PROG - 4de Seun van Charles Marais

Started by Louis Scholtz, j4 on Sunday, July 28, 2013


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7/28/2013 at 12:18 PM

Op Familysearch, in die filmreeks "Netherlands, Bibliothèque Wallonne, Card Indexes, ca. 1500-1858" het ek die volgende inskrywing vir Charles Marais gevind.

Protestants de France refugiés partir pour le Cap A 3 Dec 1687
Marais du Ple[i]sis (Charles) décédé avant 1690 sa femme Catharina Taboureux
enfants Claude 24 ans, Charles 19 ans, Isaac 10 ans, David age de 6 ans

Franse Protestantse vlugtelinge vertrek na die Kaap op 3 Dec 1687
Marais du Ple[i]sis (Charles). Gestorwe voor 1690. Vrou Chatharina Taboureux
Kinders Claude 24 jaar, Charles 19 jaar, Isaac 10 jaar, David 6 jaar oud

Die kaartjie kan by die skakel besigtig word.

My vraag. Op die Geni profiel en ook in Geslagregisters word geen melding van die kind David gemaak nie. Tog is die naam David nie ongekend in die Marais familie nie. Ek het trouwens self Marais familielede met die voornaam. Op die kaartjie in die filmreeks word ook geen melding gemaak van die dogter Marie Madeleine nie. Weet enige van die Marais navorsers miskien meer oor die "verlore" seun David en die dogter Marie Madeleine?

7/28/2013 at 3:00 PM

Private User I see you know more about this profile than the rest of us.

Private User
7/28/2013 at 3:43 PM

Could someone please translate this? I get the gist - I think!

My stand bu=y is always Richard Ball

Have sent him the link and will report back!

Private User
7/28/2013 at 11:56 PM

From Richard Ball

Transcribed the entry -
Card Index
Biblioteque Wallonne
Leiden. So. Hoalland


Protestants de France refugiés partis pour le Cap 31 Dec 1687
Marais du Plessis (Charles)
decédé avant 1690
sa femme Catharina Taboureux
enfants Claude 24 ans, Charles 19 ans, Isaac 10 ans,
David agé de 6 ans



This is an index entry. One would need to have a look at whatever it
is indexing - some sort of source? (we are not provided with that

Depending on what is being referenced, I may point out that this couple undoubtedly had a daughter, aged about 6 in 1687:

The information on this index slip is almost the same as that provided by C G Botha in his 'French Refugees' - he gives his source as:

Cape Archiives, C416, Inkomende Brieven: Kamer Delft, Dec 19 1687, f.1013 except for the names David in the one and Marie in Botha's quote.

Once we have the actual source of that index entry, we would be able to comment further and presumably compare with that of Botha once it has been photographed in the Cape Archives.

7/29/2013 at 2:43 AM

June, GOOGLE translate Afrikaans to English:

FamilySearch, in the movie series "Canada, Bibliothèque Wallonne Card Indexes, ca. 1500-1858" I found the following entry for Charles Marais.

Protestant de France refugiés partir pour le Cap A 3 Dec 1687
Marais du Ple i sis (Charles) décédé avant 1690 sa femme Catherine Taboureux
enfants Claude 24 ans, Charles 19 ans, Isaac 10 ans, David age 6 ans

French Protestant refugees went to the Cape on 3 Dec 1687
Marais du Ple [i sis (Charles). Deceased before 1690. Woman Chatharina Taboureux
Children Claude 24, Charles 19, Isaac 10 years, David 6 years

The ticket to the link ... viewed.

My question. The Geni profile and Genealogies no mention of the child David. Yet the name David unrivaled in the Marais family. I do indeed own Marais family members with the first name. On the ticket in the film series is also no mention of daughter Marie Madeleine. Know any of the Marais researchers may learn more about the "lost" son David and daughter Marie Madeleine?

Private User
7/29/2013 at 3:05 AM

Barbara - are you not just repeating the information Louis drew our attention to? As Richard said - it is an index - to a reference in a book? - and a source is not actually given to support that information unless it is in the book.

I do use Google translate - and a dictionary - not always good enough!!

Hallo Louis , Interessante bevinding , maar van David as seun van Charles het ek nog nooit gehoor nie . Marie se naam word wel genoem in die meeste historiese dokumente wat ek nog gesien het Daar was nog 'n seun Jacques , maar hy het in Frankryk agtergebly

Ek sou ook graag wou verneem of iemand iets meer weet

Eugene Marais

Private User
7/29/2013 at 4:16 AM

Hallo Louis,
Ja die name David loop dik in my familie ook.
For June's sake I will answer in English. Louis when I went to the Hugenote Centre I specifically took a photo of the "handtekentinge" of all those that came. There was the parent, and children Charles, Daniel, Jazques and Marie Madeleine. I am aware that there might be a son Jean that stayed behind, as well as had confirmation from the French on the parents of the Prog and his wife.
But have never heard about a David.
June you are completely correct. Don't ever try and translate Afrikaans on Google. It is really totally incorrect. Use you "Skool Woordeboek". LOL

7/30/2013 at 2:41 PM

Thanks for all the replies. Private User, you and David are right in that we need to see the document to which the index card refers to. The content of the index card is, as you have noticed, remarkably similar to the wording of the transcribed letter from Delft in Botha's French Refugees. could this be taken from the same document with an inadvertent transcription error? Could be, but as you've rightly stated, we will need to have a look at the original document.

On the website of the University of Leiden, the Bibliothèque Wallonne is summarised as follows :

Collection gathered by the Bibliothèque Wallonne, an infomation centre for the history of the Walloon churches in the Netherlands, consisting of, amongst others, archives (ca. 100 m.), manuscripts (ca. 4 m.), printed works and art objects which are relevant for the study of the history of francophone protestantism in the Netherlands.

Part of this collection includes the "Fichier Wallonne", a list of entries from the Protestant Bith, Marriage and Death registers. This document can apparently be accessed in Microfiche format at the "Centraal Bureau voor Genealogie" in Den Haag.

7/30/2013 at 2:44 PM

Eugene Charl Marais, b2c2d6e1f4g10h2i1, dankie vir jou antwoord. Het jy miskien meer inligting oor Jacques Marais wat in Frankryk agtergebly het?

Groete, Louis

7/30/2013 at 2:49 PM

Private User, dankie vir die ekstra inligting. Kan jy ons almal bly maak en jou foto van die handtekeninge oplaai!! By jou verduideliking aan June het daar ook nou 'n Daniel Marais ingesluip. Was dit 'n fout, of kruip die tweede geslag Marais kinders nou vinniger uit die kas as wat ons hulle kan byhou :)

Goete, Louis

Private User
7/31/2013 at 1:05 AM

HI Louis,
Dit was daar. Die handtekeninge was jare lank die profielfoto van die kinders tot iemand dit vervang het met die wapen.
Ek sal bietjie weer laai.
Die Daniel by June is Charles jnr. se boetie. My fout daardie een.
Groete, Judi

Hi Louis , Ek het maar net in die " Hugenote Bulletin " gelees dat Jacques lank beskou was as die verlore seun van die ou grootvader , en dat iemand toe later hom opgespoor het Ek het intussen gewonder of David nie 'n foutiewe inskrywing op die kaartjie was ipv Marie ?



Private User
7/31/2013 at 11:08 PM

Contribution from Corney Keller (eGGSA lives in the Netherlands)

These card indexes, housed in the Regionaal Archief Leiden, do not state categorically what the source of each card is. Clues can
however be found on the cards where place names are mentioned.
The card for Charles Marias however does not give any clues. I guess one will either have to visit Leiden or contact the archive
there for more information.
I'm including a document with some background of the Bibliothèque Wallonne.
[CJB - if anyone wants this let me know and I will post a link]

Considering what Richard say about Graham Botha's version, it could also be possible that the indexer of the card made a mistake.
One will have to consult the same source the indexer used to compare.
One might then consult both " Cape Archiives, C416, Inkomende Brieven: Kamer Delft, Dec 19 1687, f.1013" as well as the one the
indexer used, if it still exists.
I had a look at the archives of the chamber of Delft but could not find any 'uitgaande brieven.'

Private User
7/31/2013 at 11:11 PM
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