Adaltrude - Is Anstrude actually Adaltrude?

Sharon Doubell C

1/26/2015 at 3:44 AM

Just doing some housework on Pepin's tree, and want to check if there is any more info - thoughts on whether Adaltrude is actually Anstrude? Medlands and Wikipedia have different versions of the story:

1) Medlands has Adaltrude's grandmother Anselfled arranging the assassination of her son-in-law Berthechar, in 688. Following which (before 697), Adaltrude marries Drogo.
Here Adaltrude is the daughter of Anstrudis and Berthechar, and the Annales Metenses reference to Drogo's wife as Austrudim is taken to be a confusion between mother and daughter. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/FRANKSMaiordomi.htm#Berthechardied688

2) Wikipedia, however, tells the story that Berthar killed his mother-in-law Ansfled, and then fled. His wife, Anstrudis, then married Pepin's eldest son, Drogo, (and Pepin became the mayor of the palace of Neustria and Burgundy without opposition.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthar

I must say, the Medlands version makes more sense to me.

Thoughts from Justin Durand & Jason Scott Wills - whose profile for Adaltrudis supports the Medlands version

And from Marieke Kuijjer and Taylor Sills whose more recent profile for Anstrude is more in line with the Wikipedia version?

Justin Durand

1/26/2015 at 11:38 AM

I don't see any reason for Anstrude and Adaltrude to be the same person. In the different sources they are different people who stand in different relationships to the other players.

No opinion about which is correct.

English Wikipedia is unsourced, so take it off the table. It's not even worth considering.

French Wikipedia, which is sourced, agrees with Medlands.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berchaire_(maire_du_palais)

German Wikipedia, also sourced, notes both versions.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berchar

Charles Cawley at Medlands shows there are two different versions because there are conflicting sources. He judges the 697 to be more likely correct because it is closer in time to the events.

I would go with Cawley's opinion, because he's an expert who has considered the conflict and rendered an opinion.

The other sources don't show any indication that they've weighed the conflicting evidence so they are less credible,

Someday we might find another expert who looked at the conflict and came to a different conclusion. Then, it would be time to re-examine the problem.

It would be worth re-checking Medlands from time to time. It tends to be volatile. There's always a chance that Cawley will discover something more or change his mind.

Sharon Doubell C

1/27/2015 at 12:04 AM

Thanks Justin for so clearly laying out the options, as you always do.
I agree with you. Will conform to that, and leave this Discussion here for any new developments in the future.

Sharon Doubell C

1/27/2015 at 11:44 PM

Jason Scott Wills I'm going to put a Curator note on her to help the configuration as we have it to 'stick'. This will usurp you as Curator, please take her back if you're fond of her :-)

Jason Scott Wills C

1/27/2015 at 11:58 PM

please take her. i have enough to take care of as it is

Sharon Doubell C

1/28/2015 at 8:27 AM

I have created a template on a Project for safe-keeping: http://www.geni.com/projects/Anseflede-Anstrudis-Adaltrudis-the-May....
I will MP and put this info on all the relevant profiles.
All welcome to join.

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Adaltrude - Is Anstrude actually Adaltrude?

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