Ansela van de Caap, b2 SM - Timor link disproved by genetic evidence.

Thank you Petrie! ☺ It was a very interesting 'project' indeed - trying to 'distill' the core genealogical facts and not be beguiled by the romanticism of a good story!

Rooken Podesta says "I am contacting you about this profile: https://www.geni.com/people/Ansela-van-de-Caap-SM-PROG/600000000248...

I refer: :
"According to a South African geneticist who had been consulted, there is currently insufficient complete genome data available for African mt-DNA to compare Ansela’s complete L0a1b2 genome with, and attempt to identify a more specific origin. However, increasing availability over time of data for complete mitochondrial genomes in Africa may make this possible at a future date."

My Aunt, ( Private) , who is a matrilineal descendants of Ansela, is currently living in Australia. She is 70 years old and not in great health.

It was her test, through Wits, that previously: "indicated that the Campher stammoeder’s maternal line is African. (Ansela's) descendants have been identified as belonging to African mitochondrial haplogroup L0a1b2. (GENI “South Africa mt-DNA female progenitors” project, https://www.geni.com/projects/South-African-mtDNA-Female-Progenitor... )

Why don't we get her to do a more in-depth DNA test?

I need someone to advise which test to do and to help me co-manage this project.

If this is important enough please contact me asap.

Sincerely,

Rooken Podesta"

Rooken Podesta - It seems the geneticist is saying there are not enough people who have been tested for African mt-DNA which which your aunt's data can be compared. However there are international organizations which *may* have a larger sampling of African mtDNA... FTDNA, 23 and Me, Ancestry, etc. She would have to redo the test for any of these. Even if she did however, there still may not be enough people who have also tested to pinpoint origin with certainty.

I believe it is important enough to do a more in-depth test, because autosomal results also come into play ... and of course, given her age and frailty, if the test is done now it will be there for posterity to compare as more and more data comes along.

Please feel free to email me at van.de.caep@gmail.com

Thanks Delia

Thanks for your reply Delia. That's helpful. And thanks for your offer to discuss further.

xR

This is indeed one of the most interesting research on the Campher family name I have so far come across in my search for my family's ancestors.

It is without doubt an outstanding true love story in which any person would not mind to be part of... and so I have believed for the past few years.
However, with all the excellent research and effort that has gone into this intriguing story I have come to the sad realization that I might have to face reality of a possible disappointment of not being part of one of the most endearing stories in the South African wine history.

I've learnt about the infamous Mrs. Ansela many years ago and, without any further investigation, just accepted to belong to an ancestral lineage of this kind until I have discovered this thread.

However, whichever way it may turn out to be it still remains a very intriguing story for all players in and around Mesdames. Ansela van den "where-ever-from".

I therefore am prepared to get involved in any current research which might need my familily's DNA tracks?

I am currently also still managing our family website on MyHeritage but so far I've only managed to map generations from the beginning of the 1900's until now. Geni appears to be the right place to take it further. If it would be of any help I would also appreciate any advice as to the most effective way to copy MyHeritage data into Geni.

In brief:... my ancestral background is as follows:

As far as I been told, my Great Grand Parents hail from the Malayan Cape Town community which, from the interesting research in this thread, already indicate that a trip to De Driesprong / Muratie might be the wrong place to get the family excited for. If Granny was right, it appears that the Baauw / Ida von Timor are the right tracks to follow instead.

My grandparents (from my father's side - the apparently Malayan descendants) moved to Namibia during the late 1940's and without knowing each other yet, my mother's family (apparently of the English Fischer's descent), also from Cape Town, followed a few years thereafter.

With 4 more siblings, lots of direct cousins and a preceding generation, I believe we are still a valuable gene-pool.

I'm hereby more than willing to join any reputable research for a good cause or if anybody could direct me to any helpful source of any kind to further my search, would be more than welcome.

Thanking you in advance.
Regards
Yul Campher

Welcome Yul. I think you're saying that your grandparents entered SA a lot after the 1600s?

Hiya Yul. Just add a few of your ancestors here on Geni, say 4 generations back. We can then tie you to the Geni big tree without needing to copy anything from MyHeritage. And that would enable us to see how you are related to the profiles under discussion.

Thank you Sharon and Jan for the nice warm welcome. Thanks for the e-mail and link, it is very handy for Geni rookies like me.

Yes Sharon, that is still the $1mil question. We unfortunately could, as yet, not trace any family or friends who knows when and from where our ancestors entered SA. We nevertheless are close to tracing someone who may know. Most are nevertheless of the opinion that if no one have heard of any entrance then it could only have been as far back with the colonies and slave trades.

I suppose a DNA analysis would clarify a lot of these questions.

Thank you Jan for the advice and your offer to assist tying the loose ends, I'll start with the family tree soon.

Dear Yul, I see you started adding, but before going down on the beaten track...

https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012463005177

the ancestry is vague! Need dates, places, full names, correct last names. Especially his grandfather, should not be marked private for us to assist.

Dear Jan. Thanks for your offer to collaborate on expanding family trees. I can certainly learn allot from you. I have accepted your collaboration request in the mean time.

I, first of all, must admit that although I have initiated and managed our family's MyHeritage webpage for the past +-7 years the detail remains scant and very shallow. My initial aim was to grow the tree faster vertically but just the opposite happened which is not where my interest and curiosity lies.

Although my first entry into Geni dates back to 2011, I had not been active in Geni and I still have lots to learn as to how everything links up in Geni. But don't worry, I'm a fast learner...lol

Yes, I did start with updates on my tree but and, yes, allot of info is still missing. Unless there is a rule that I have overlooked which prohibits one from mapping a person if all info on that person is not available yet? I'll have no problem to comply.

I'll soon also attend to the ones who are marked private. Thanks for pointing that out.

Will this collaboration also apply to other external family trees... for example the MyHeritage family trees?

Em Lo
Ansela supoosed wife of Lourenz Campher ( please note not on GENI anymore ) not same Ansela !! Two different women

Ansela van de Caap, SM/PROG x Lorenz Campher, SV/PROG

Ansela (Baauw) van Timor isn't Ansela vdC