Johanna Pieters, b1 - RE: Pieter Jansz Van Nimwegen

Ja @Drummond, maar Johanna is sy dogter by Maria HELM(ES). Die ander dogters was by Cornelia THEUNSZ (Cornelia Jacobsz van Nimwegen)

Ek verstaan dit Jaco, wou net haar ouers verskaf. Maar nou sien ek dit is weer heel anders as van te vore. Nou wys haar ouers as Pieter Willem Nel en Johanna Catharina Bekker?

Sy is circa 1700 gebore en haar "ma" is 1733 gebore volgens die huidige informasie op Geni.com.

Stem saam Drummond - die datums maak nie sin nie. Konsensus dat haar ma Helmes was en nie Bekker nie?

Het gaan kyk na haar bronne en verander in lyn daarvan.

Dit is so moeilik want voorheen het my lyn Susanne Laurent toe geloop, in Frankryk. Nou loop dit Geertruij Willemsz toe.

Maar, volg ons Rentia se lyn (ons mtDNA stem ooreen behalwe vir een mutasie) op Geni.com, loop dit Elizabeth 'Isabeau' Le Bleu toe; wat weer in Frankryk is.

Hoe "waterdig" is die navorsing hier? Wat dink jy van die bronne Jan?

Hallo Drummond,

Het gaan loer, as jou stamboom op Geni reg is, loop jou mtDNA tans Frankryk toe, onder meer deur Alida Blomerus b4! Die stammoeder was Jean de la Batte. Kan net die een pad volg.

Gee maar 'n profiel as ek verkeerd verstaan het. Ek dink hier is die bronne goed, as mens nou die handskrif reg lees!

Groete
Jan

So ek dink die pad is alreeds reggemaak, dit is nou na Susanne Laurent:

Ek gaan nie die pad uittik nie, maar dit is jou mtDNA pad.

Ek sou bitter graag wil weet wat die mtDNA haplogroep is, want dit is dus ook die een van Zacharias Blomerus se vrou.

Hi Jan,

Ja, die lyn is terug na hoe dit voorheen was. Hierdie informasie maak meer sin as wat daar was 22/01/2016.

Maar, daar is oorweldige bewys dat Johanna Pietersz van Nimwegen die dogter van Pieter Jansz van Nimwegen en Maria Helm kan wees. Dit is nie my navorsing nie, maar dit is baie oortuigend! Ek haal die volgende (indirek) aan, uit Jaco Strauss en Corney Keller se navorsing.

Soos Jaco sê - die Barend Pieterse skakel maak nie sin nie. Sy sou te jonk gewees het om Maria De Nys se ma te wees. Seker die mees oortuigende bewys, danksy Corney Keller, is uit Kaapstad troues 1734, p. 29:

Den 3 8ber
Christiaen Peetshold, van Frankfort aen den Oder soldaet
in dienst der e: comp: jongman, met Johanna
Pieterze van Nimwegen, wed:e wijlen Jan den Nijs.

Ons weet ook danksy die rolle van 1696 af dat Pieter Jansz van Nimwegen en Maria Helm/Helmus saam gewoon het (1696, 1698, 1700, 1702, 1703*)

Soos ek sê, baie, baie oortuigend.

OK - nie 100% vir my nie, kyk gou nou:

Johanna Pietersz de Nys

Ek het nie toegang na jou bronne nie, maar vir my dat haar eerste dogter Maria de Nys is, maak die Helms lyn meer moontlik. Dus terug na G Willemse.

As iemand dalk enige verdere bronne het vir Pieter Janz van Nimwegen (wie was hy, sy ouers?) en dat hy 'n kind sou he by Maria Helms?

Naaste wat ek aan Johanna 'van Nimwegen' kom is:

Geertruy Helmes (Maria Helmes se suster) het 'n dogter Johanna (gedoop 1.1699) gehad. Nou Geertruy is in 1707 oorlede. Is daar nie 'n moontlikheid dat hierdie Johanna in die sorg van haar suster Maria geplaas is, en sy ook dan die van Nimwegen van aangeneem het nie?

Dit verklaar egter nie waarom sy nie 'n dogter Geertruy sou he nie.

Ek het die Johanna Siek profiel geskep nogtans.

Johanna von Reenen, SM

Please understand that Afrikaans is not a universal language, so please do not copy me with correspondence in a language I am unable to read.

Dear Shirley,

Rest assured that we didn't "copy" you in.

You're following the profile of Johanna Pieterse / Pietersz van Nimwegen. Consequently, discussions relevant to that profile are automatically sent to you by Geni.com.

There is a solution. At the very bottom of the email you received is link you can click. It says "Unsubscribe" and clicking it should prevent you from being barraged by further unsolicited unintelligible verbiage a.k.a. my beautiful and under-represented first language: Afrikaans.

I stand corrected, it's Isabeau Lebleu. You're receiving those notifications because she's mentioned in the discussion above, and you are listed as a Profile Manager. So you weren't copied in, Isabeau Lebleu was.

The above comments answer my question, as to why I'm included here as well...By the way, I'm always grateful when comments are posted in English..My mother was from South Africa, but I was born & grew up in England...I love all languages, but for me some are easier to follow than others!

I have come across a few discussions that are in arabic, french and portuges. Not the best way but when comming across these I copy them and google "Translate" I then paste them there and have managed to follow most of the discusion reasonably ok. Hope this helps.

I have often found Google Translate doesn't translate all the words..And those that have been translated often don't make sense!..But when it does work, obviously that is helpful.

I am conversant in several languages. The language I choose to converse in is largely dependent upon whom I am speaking to. This discussion is in regards to a Dutch woman, at the Cape. Afrikaans and Dutch are mutually intelligible. I have never, for a moment, presumed to force someone to use one language or another. The advice from Eileen is sound advice. If you don't understand it, translate it; or ignore it. Don't impose upon others to do as you please, simply because it suits you.

Thank you for completely derailing this discussion.

What is the Source evidence that establishes Johanna Pietersz de Nys as the daughter of Pieter Jansz van Nimwegen and Maria Helm?

The FFYP reference in the About http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g8/p8597.htm seems to suggest that Barend Pieters & Jeanne Néel are the parents.

Source is Corney Keller, I'll copy what I have of the original discussion:

1696
District Drakentseijn
Jan le Roux }
Gabriel le Roux } maats
Pieter Jansz en Maria Elmus
Jan Macassar
Cornelis Knots en Dirkje Helmus
Jan Colmer
(VC39 vol 1 page 165)

1698
Godert Jans v. Ceijlon
Pieter Jansz v Nimwegen en Maria Helmes 1 k.
Jan Schepping en Jacoba Willens 1 k.
(p. 184)

1700
Francois Bastiaanse en Anna Maria Pieters
Pieter Janse v. Nimwegen en Maria Helmes
Pieter Janse v. Marseveen en Elisabeth Dupree

1702
Onder 't district v. Drakenstein
- Pieter Jansz v. Nimwegen & Maria Elwes 4 k.
(VC 49 page 9)

Then, the following more substantial:
Kaapstad troues 1734, p. 29:
Den 3 8ber
Christiaen Peetshold, van Frankfort aen den Oder soldaet
in dienst der e: comp: jongman, met Johanna
Pieterze van Nimwegen, wed:e wijlen Jan den Nijs.

i.e. Marriage to Jan De Nys, which shows her name as Johanna Pieterze van Nimwegen.

Also, conversation with Jaco Strauss:
Oor die Geni profiel het ek vir Judi MEYER ingelig van die foutiewe skakel met Barend PIETERSZ en sy het onderneem om dit reg te stel, maar blykbaar word dit gereeld verkeerdelik gekoppel deur oorywerige newbies... Ek hoop sy lock nou maar daardie profiel.

Okay - so then, the person in this baptism register:
Johanna: d'Vader Barent Pietersz, d'Moeder Johanna Nel, getù Willem Odèndaal, en Jùdith Nel, 13e Octb 1715. http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/e1266.htm

is a different Johanna altogether?

And is this profile another Johanna Pietersz van Nimwegen Johanna Pietersz, b1?

The wife of Jan de Nijs has a daughter in 1726. Unless she wasn't an infant at her 1715 baptism, there must be two Johanna Pieterszes.

Do we have anything to link Johanna Pietersz van Nimwegen in the list above to Pieter Jansz en Maria Elmus as her parents>

Do we have the marriage certificate of Johanna & Jan den Nijs? Perhaps the parents are given there?

Sharon, I think there's Johanna Pieterse daughter of Barend Pieterse and Johanna Nel i.e. the sister of Judith Nel. See Judith Nel and Willem Odendaal as witnesses?I don't know how the *van Nimwegen* got attached to this Johanna Pieterse b.1715. It's not on the baptismal entry you linked, that I can see.

We have evidence (as above) that Pieter Jansz van Nimwegen and Maria Helms lived together 1696, 1698, 1700, 1702, 1703.

Here we have an entry specifically referring to Johanna Pieterze van Nimwegen, the widow of Jan Den Nys , marrying Christiaen Peetshold. There is a baptism for Anna Christina Peetzholt, for example, that also refers to Johanna Pieterz van Nimweegenen (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11116-195263-10?cc=147...).

I think that a leap may have been made between Johanna Pieterse, daughter of Barend Pieterse Johanna Nel, and Johanna Pietersz van Nimwegen. Hence the confusion.

Also, Cape Town Marriages 1725, page 13:
28 d:o
Jan Nijs, van Cabo, jongm: en Johanna Pietersz, van Cabo, jonge d:r.
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

Drummond, I can't get the marriage doc to open on my tablet - I'll take a look from my computer later today.

I agree that there's been a mash up of two women and I'll start untangling this afternoon. I'm hoping Judi will come and take a look so we can get her approval.