DNA Integration Superthread

Of all my contacts, only two so far have given me the curtacy of allowing me to know their gedmatch number. All take and no give is my greatest worry. I am setting up projects for my family and hope that this will bring all candidates together to work for the truth :) I am tired of feeling like a dumb bunny and everyone knows more than I do, is how it feels some times. Maybe its consideration? I am preparing to disconnect yet another un proved part of my tree, the first I could do with dis proving old myths and records, but with this huge part, the records add up but dna isnt proven and Im not getting matches.

Sharyn -- re: "I am preparing to disconnect yet another un proved part of my tree,... with this huge part, the records add up but dna isnt proven and Im not getting matches."
-- There are folks who only consider biological kin to belong on their tree.
There are others who find it interesting if, for example, they discover one of their parents was actually sired by a neighbor - but continue to see both members of the couple who acknowledged and raised their parent as true "family", as both being their grandparents, etc.

Also - how close or distant are these relationships that are failing to be confirmed thru DNA? If folks should be 1st Cousins, and DNA shows no match - then almost certainly not blood-kin first cousins. But 4th cousins - only 50% are expected to show as matches, so failure to show does not prove not related.
If the paper trail is good, then the question becomes possibly where is the NPE or adoption - but not clear they should be cut off.

Thanks Private User

Living cousins via 3rd Great Grandfather. Two in one area have matches but neither to me apparently. BUT dna from a generation above me!

First (F) child of first (M) child and dates allow plenty of time to have had that child in wedlock. All other sides of that family are confirmed now I believe, I am working on that now, but looking good.

First (F) had to marry but the husbands side is proved.

Right now I feel that there is an error other than the obvious. I wont ask for a disconnection unless I find an error in connections and records and alternate family for it.

I do a lot of one name studies for that reason, as to make sure there have not been errors in the what is sometimes "tunnel vision" of compiling a tree.

not sure if you mean it is 5th cousins you are looking at (3rd great grandparents are siblings) - or 4th cousins (have the same 3rd great grandfather) -

per https://isogg.org/wiki/Autosomal_DNA_statistics - Only between 15% and 32% of fifth cousins will share enough DNA to show up as a match
plus see: https://isogg.org/wiki/Cousin_statistics

and if it does not take us off-topic, could you explain what is a "one name study"?

Thanks, the cousins share the same 2nd great grandparents that are being tested, 2nd cousins once removed. Working on a file that focuses on one sir name and the different branches but not all will be related at all. Basically it proves they are not related or the lines were mixed up by mistakes. I start off just working on marriages and build up from there adding new individuals to a file, only from records and not clicking the links put forward by pre matching say on ancestry.

I am finding it too difficult to walk or talk my relatives through transferring their 23 and Me results to FTDNA and then here, and they (and i) am frustrated that the PROMISE is made, but the reality has not yet come to pass.

Please, Geni, take off the promise or make it real. I have some pissed off family members now, who jumped through hoops and got zilch.

Private User I have set up these portals for family dna projects, wonder if you could read what I have written and make sure I don't sound factious or that it is not encouraging problems to be too much in the open. Personally I like the truth and don't mind that its "out there", I am also always prepared to be wrong. Others may be more invested or sensitive, and minding that may take more delicacy than I possess. Would love input on how we handle conflicts in the dna matching, changing trees and finding the best way forward.

https://www.geni.com/projects/DNA-South-Australia-Portal/47976

Shaz - I started looking and sent you a PM.

DNA success Private User :) I have been able to add a new branch of Von Schack to the tree through a dna match to 6th cousin once removed.

I think that is awesome and the match was back in the homeland so its doubly awesome :D

Thanks for your encouragement. S

Announcement in FTDNA's Forums http://forums.familytreedna.com/showthread.php?t=43411 "Ysearch and Mitosearch are finally going to be shut down. Management is aiming for the end of this month but the exact date has not been announced yet. I would recommend getting whatever data you may want off of it as soon as possible."

What does this do to all the profiles Geni created solely as a result of Ysearch and Mitosearch? Anything?

The transfer of all the profiles from Ysearch and Mitosearch to Geni is a part of the plan to close down those sites.

I am new to using DNA to find family “matches” to build my family lines. I just recently uploaded my MtDNA onto the tree. Might I ask those with more experience how they are using their MtDNA to do so? I added my MtDNA and only received 55 matches and many of them lead to nowhere. Is there a way I can better use the matches? Is it easier to use autosomal matches then MtDNA?

Hi! I still see way too many MtDNA results (2210 matches) in Geni as compared to FTDNA, all with the genetic distance (gd) of 0 or 1, which makes the gd calculation pretty useless for sorting and filtering. To my understanding, the reason is that Geni only checks for matches in the HVR1 region and HVR2 region, but skips the Coding region. Am I right?

Suggestion: I want to be able to change the settings to consider all three MtDNA regions. Just like in ftdna.com. I accept if this means that I will only see matches with people who have taken Full Mt Sequence test, and not with people who bought cheaper MtDNA tests. Genetic distance 0 would be much shorter if I choose all three regions (in my case only a couple of hundred years instead of 1000s or 10000s of years. The number of gd 0 matches would be a fraction (in my case FTDNA shows no gd 0 matches when looking at all three regions).

Hi again! Is the YDNA haplogroup propagation throughout the tree still limited to 10 generations? Any plans to step by step increase this value?

Arguments for such a change: (1) I have not seen any complaints that 10 generations would be too much. (2) There are several "proven" and famous family trees originating around the year of 1400, corresponding to 15-20 generations, and it would be a good commercial if Geni could show the haplogroup of the full trees. (3) Increasing the limit step by stop would force us to "prune" such family trees from genetically disproven branches and conflicting YDNA groups, and to indicate where new branches (new mutations pr SNPs) likely occurs.

For example, in Sweden there is a a genetically proven and well documented tree called the Bure kinship, which originates in the year of 1390. Certain branches were speculative and are now disproven using DNA. The Geni BUre tree is now rather accurate - speculative och mythical lines are now cut from the tree.

Another famous Swedish-Norwegian tree from the same time is the Skancke knight kinship. DNA tests shows what many how suspected: It consists of several (on the male line) genetically unrelated branches or clusters that have survived until today. Indicating the conflicting YDNA groups would help us cutting the tree.

Mike Stangel drawing your attention to Magnus’ points.

Magnus Eriksson

Geni matches Mitocondrial on HVR1, HVR2 and the Coding Region, if available. The problem with all those "HIDDEN <surname>" mitochondrial matches is that they were imported from Mitosearch where users could not enter the Coding Region mutations even if they wanted to.

Y-DNA is still limited to 10 generations. This is because some of the STR markers mutate too quickly to reliably go much further back. For example, DYS481 has a mutation rate of about 0.005 -- that means with each generation there's a 0.5% chance of a mutation. That means there's only about a 90% chance that two 10th generation descendants of the same man, will match each other on that marker. Going farther risks incorrectly labeling two test-takers as not a match when in fact they could be.

Mike Stangel that's a problem within 10 generations too. I have a GD 3 relative with a common relative only 7 generations back.
The correct solution is to show "match", not "conflict", when the number of generations is reasonable for the GD given, and the SNP haplogroups are compatible.

Regarding MtDNA regions: Thankyou Mike for an explanation of the problematics. However, that is not an argument against adding a region setting according to my suggestion.

Regarding step by step extending the YDNA limit: Based on Harald's suggestion, I suggest that Geni should indicate if a haplogroup is '''verified''', '''unverified''' or '''non-matching'''.
* The haplogroup of the test person should be considered verified.
* If the haplogroup of ancestors of the test person is only based on one test result, it should be indicated as unverified.
* If the haplogroups are based on at least two tests, it may either be verified or non-matching. This only considers descentents along two or more strict male lines strarting with different sons of one common ancestor and ending with two test perons. If the two test persons have similar haplogroup, then that haplogroup should be considered verified for that person and for all persons along those two lines, otherwize it should be considered non-matching.
** A difference of up to gd=1 between the two haplogroups should default be considered as matching
** It should be possible to manually verify that the two groups are matching (for example if the two test persons have taken different types of YDNA tests) or non-matching.

Similar mechanism can be implemented for the MtDNA case.

Magnus,
Love hearing about the DNA mutations in my case do to absolutely Rare heart condition be pretty easy to match me up only handful people in world have it. 1 in 100,000 May get what I got but when you put the NXK2.5 Gentic mutation only handful have it. Genealogy wise I been looking at tree to see where this mutation might be popping up in death records. I love the projects you have just wish they didn’t split as much as have been compiling my own data for doctors with projects here. It funny the NXK2.5 gene mustation did show up on my 23andMe DNA I did was wild seeing where that was at. Hopefully your all efforts will help me get bigger picture about self as far as projects. I hope me putting my DNA in will help others and be able to find family too but I useally they scared to death when they find I match. Unfortunately my DNA exsperiance is not typical and it not been as well as I hoped medically or Genalogically. I do have dead ends hoping to clear up or get clue where I belong in mix even if not clear idea. Thanks for all hard work
Billie

Billie,

Super interesting. Sorry to hear about your condition. To my understanding, the mutation you mention is in chromosome 5, meaning that it can be identified using an autosomal DNA test (but not an YDNA or an MtDNA test). Sorry if I explain what you already know, but the gene does not follow a strict male line, or a strict female line, but a mix of male and female lines. Thus, the haplogroup info that would pop up in Geni if you took an MtDNA test has nothing to do with this gene. If someone is your "Autosomal DNA match" according to Geni, the probability is still very low that they share this specific mutation.

Since you have taken an autosomal genealogical dna test, you may analyze it for free for for medical purpose on the sate https://www.promethease.com. Perhaps that is how you found out about the NXK2.5 gene? Or maybe you also took a DNA test designed for medical purpose?

Another way to see if others share this gene, is probably to use the chromosome browser that is available in most DNA sites (but still not in Geni). Still, it must be really difficult to use DNA tests to find where in your family this gene originates. You have to ask a huge amount of people to take DNA tests to find out about this.

Magnus,
Actully this gene was found through heart study done on my kids you talking to one of the founders of the gene. It did show up on 23andMe. Thanks about the condition part I feel if I can help others with my gene it all worth while. I taken tons DNA both Medical and Genealogical ones. I got to put pun on this at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they found Alien DNA lol. Joking, Geni has been able to help though I can track all the Heart Condition Deaths on the cardiac Project I been loading up all death records I can find. The causes of death help my doctors in that it states possibilities I can suffer what’s in genetics we can look for. You were 100% correct this is not specific to one parent. But I find your mutation break down fascinating and was just pondering the medical stuff could a mutation like mine be carried say how many generations. The Royals in England have mutations for bleeding that carried several generations they done historical documentaries on it. If these trees even partially correct that on Geni it neat to trace back I can trace back to illigitmate Royals ect. Not stating that this gene can go back that far be diluted to hilt but it fun looking to see what you can find. Haven’t got total grip on DNA yet but love watching post learning about both sides who know what I will find out there in DNA Abyss.
I hoping to find my Weaver/Callahan/few others I got brick walls on too. DNA can sure help with confirming stuff even the autosomal test.
Billie

Mike and Billie,
Based on the this discussion, it should be possible to formulate a future vision for more Geni DNA features:
- Classification of haplogroups as verified, non-verified or non-matchning.
- Many of the free features that are (were?) available at gedmatch.com. Especially:
-- A chromosome browser
-- A phasing tool (useful if you have tested several near members) to identify what you have inherited from your mother's and father's side respectively
- A DNA painting tool would be useful in reconstructing DNA of ancestors based on the Geni tree and several autosomal tests. See for example https://dnapainter.com/ . However there are privacy issues that must be solved if used on Geni.

Medical analysis is sensitive from ethical and legal perspective and should not at all be supported by Geni i.m.h.o. Let's leave that to companies like https://www.promethease.com .

> The correct solution is to show "match", not "conflict", when the number of generations is reasonable for the GD given, and the SNP haplogroups are compatible.

Amen!

Magus,
I have a DNA funny for you here. This relationship way off though and there 2 maybe 3 ways I connect to this guy but I Related to him through his parents both them 2 Burkhammer and Jarvis are my Direct ancestors we have 2 common ancestors. My question DNA wise would my connection be doubled maybe tripled since we have both common ancestors? Would I be showing closer relations then what presented. I wonder how Geni figures this type mess out. I just thought this was DNA funny I have lots fun when it comes to DNA hits in these lines. Just tell cousins it hard to tell exactly what relations we truely are as these 2 families married in and out of each other frequently. But on a serious note how do I look at my DNA hits under this situation.
Billie

Amos Jarvis is your 6th great uncle's great nephew.
You
→ Virginia Lee Bright (Myers)
your mother → Freeda Belle Myers
her mother → Alonzo Buck Potts
her father → Lucinda D. Potts
his mother → Mary Jane McCauley
her mother → Catherine Burkhammer
her mother → John Jarvis
her father → Sergeant Solomon Jarvis
his brother → John Jarvis
his brother → Joseph Jarvis
his son → Amos Jarvis
his son

Amos Jarvis

Mike Stangel,

I am looking for people to YDNA test to proof a certain medieval line. When I click on that profile, and Choose DNA->"View a list of living people who can be tested for Y-DNA that should match ..." i get nothing. I have to go into a large number of descendants profiles that lived maximum 10 generations ago, and generate this list. Then I get results, but that is tedious work. Would it at least be possible to extend the limit in this case?

For this use case, I use HistoryLink's descendant lister: https://historylinktools.herokuapp.com/graph?profile=profile-g60000...
It can take up to 15 generations in one go, and offers a nice clickable display of the found descendants.

Suggestion: Cross linking is excellent for SEO (Silo) We now have the app that adds links to about which is excellent.

Can we have a similar linkage as to a project, but to profiles?

Link + association

Creating a list as like projects they are in but without the need to create a project page.

Examples of use:
Commanding officer
Employer
Found as visitor on their census
Best friends
Lived next door
Attended same school

etc, this could be very handy to give another dimension to the tree and solve mysteries at times.

And importantly for here, possible DNA link

Private User - re: "Cross linking is excellent for SEO (Silo) We now have the app that adds links to about which is excellent." - no idea what "SEO (Silo)" is and no idea what "the app that adds links to about" is referring to.
All I know about apps is they want access to your information, and are therefore dangerous.
Does Geni actually have apps, or are these apps others have created or ??
Suspect elaborating/responding is off-topic, so feel free to direct to a separate discussion rather than taking this one way off-topic - but I would really like a better grasp of what the heck you are saying.