@ Maria Jacobs

I have a serious question relating to this old lady ancestor if mine/ ours. Was this name ie Maria Jacobs her real original birth name and surname - or was this name given to her after / during her conversion and baptism - so she could get married at the Cape of Good hope as a slave woman? I also found the name Heenre connected to the Jacobs surname and thus placed after her Jacobs surname. Was her father maybe a Dutch official (maybe even in Battava - old Jakarta in Indonesia) - hence those 2 very Dutch names, or what? What is the story with the Heenre Surname? Anyone with ideas on this?

Sorry - typo: It should be Eenre, not Heenre. Thanks.

Maria Jacobs van Batavia, SM/PROG

(Cut and paste the https://www link at the top of the page of her profile, and it creates a link, Wilma.)

Colour, Confusion and Concessions: The History of the Chinese in South Africa
By Melanie Yap

see p 7

Dear Sharon - I cant find what you are talking about? Help please? Thanks! WB

Are you looking at a computer or tablet screen? At the top of your screen - above the Geni page itself - is the URL. It starts with https. If you cut and paste that for a Geni profile's name, it creates a link to the actual profile - that appears in Blue and people can click on it and be taken to the profile. In a Discussion, it also makes it show up on all that profile's manager's Discussion lists.

If you're looking at a cell phone screen I don't know what you see, so I can't help.

If it's cut and paste that you don't understand, just Google it - it will explain better and faster than I can.

Maria Jacobs van Batavia, SM/PROG

Wilma, that book by Melanie Yap is the only result I get when I search for "Maria Jacobs Eenre". I'm no expert but I think it may be an accidental inclusion i.e. "ten eenre" i.e. ten eenre en ter andere...

Here are the two profiles on First Fifty, I find no mention of "Eenre":
Maria Jacobs van Batavia, SM/PROG
http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g10/p10071.htm

Abraham de Veij, SV/PROG
http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g14/p14341.htm

I don't think it's a surname / achternaam.

Please may I draw you attention this piece in Wiki as well:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Van_Batavia-3

Chinese Bridegroom with Thinly Veiled Bride (Phillips, p. 185) (Lim Inko - alias Abraham de Veij / V(e)ijf(f)) and Maria Jacobs van Batavia)

Refer to : http://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/De_Vyf-1-6

What do you think of this mentionened in Wiki as well?

Hi Wilma,

I've had a look at both of those sources and both refer to her as Maria Jacobs van Batavia. I see no mention of Eenre as a surname / achternaam.

Your question was ''What is the story with the Eenre Surname? Anyone with ideas on this?''

I'm saying Eenre isn't a surname, as far as I can tell.

Thanks Drummond - appreciated.

I have seen that piece in First Fifty and know it well.

Usually the work of Delia Robertson and Mansell Upham is very accurate .

* I just saw this extra little thing there - that might be of huge significance in relation to Leonora - they mention that she was the stepdaughter of Abraham the Chinese! Does that mean she was Maira's chid then? Who knows?

See that in: http://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/De_Vyf-1-6 [S740] Mansell Upham,

"Claas Gerrits(z) van Bengale," in Die Claas(s)en Afstammelinge in Suid-Afrika, deel 1&2, (Nicolaas & Gert Hendrik Claassen, compilers, 2001), c2 Nicolaas / Claas Jansz Mulder baptised Klaas Stellenbosch 21 February 1694; married 25 November 1714

* Leonora de Vyf, wid/o Andries Backstroom / Backstroom (step-daughter of den vrij Chinees Abraham de Vyf (formerly Juko baptised Abraham) & Maria van Batavia). Hereinafter cited as "Claas Gerrits(z) van Bengale."

See also this at:

http://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/De_Vyf-1-6

Have a look under the heading:

Citations: (but look a bit further down)

*een kind van Maria van Batavia, Ariana He[ ] Please note this unfinished He .... What does that mean?

Question: Can this Ariana He ..... 's surname, maybe be Heenre or even Eenre ? Is this then another child of Maria as well, but with the surname f Heenre or Eenre t- hat we are not aware of? Opinions pleaese?

* een kind van Leentje van Batavia, Loenora. Is this also maybe proof that Leonora ( maybe spelling variant??) - was Leentjie van Battavia;s child and not Maria Jacob's?

I am in contact with Corney Keller in the Netherlands who did the official transcriptions and will have a discussion with him. I will report back or invite him to take part here. Thanks.

Anyone else's ideas? Much appreciated!

Hello Wilma,

You wrote:
"*een kind van Maria van Batavia, Ariana He[ ] Please note this unfinished He .... What does that mean?

Question: Can this Ariana He ..... 's surname, maybe be Heenre or even Eenre ? Is this then another child of Maria as well, but with the surname f Heenre or Eenre t- hat we are not aware of? Opinions pleaese?"

Please see my transcription of this entry on: http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

It reads: "een kind van Maria van Batavia, Ariana heel[slagh]"
Heelslag implies that both the mother and father were non-European.

You also write: "* een kind van Leentje van Batavia, Loenora. Is this also maybe proof that Leonora ( maybe spelling variant??) - was Leentjie van Battavia;s child and not Maria Jacob's?"

The name was Leonora, not Loenora.
It could have been the other way round, Leonora being Maria Jacobs child and Ariana being Leentje's child if someone made a mistake. The only supporting circumstantial evidence for that is that no baptism of Leonora de Vijff's baptism could be found by me and that she was named 'De Vijff". I could however not confirm that Ariana was Leentje's child.

I have found no evidence that Leonora was the child of Inko "Neniko" Fei (Abraham de Veij).

Regards,
Corney Keller

Morning Corney,
I also did some work around Maria van Batavia. I do agree there can be various spelling on names done at that time. I did create a profile for her as well, with the children, with father's as mention.

The first was.

Ariana - circa 1 August 1694
Ariana was baptize as a slave child of theVOC., She was baptize as a heelslag. No father was mention.
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

Daniel- circa 30 October 1695
Daniel was baptize as a slave child of the VOC., Cape Town. No father was mention
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

Juliana - circa 27 February 1698
Cape Town, South Africa, When she was baptize on 27 Feb 1698, she been refer to as Calfs, No Father was mention. She was baptize as slave child of the VOC
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRL9-W8B

Beatrix - circa 13 June 1700
Cape Town, Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
The Father: Nomko
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRL9-W5L

Christina - circa 18 December 1701
Cape Town, Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
The Father, Father's Name Inko (Juko) De Chinees
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRL9-72T.

Could the next be the same Maria.?
Aletta - circa 7 January 1703
Cape Town, Cape Town, Western Cape, South Africa
The Father: Antonij Van Bengale
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRL9-WTM

Abraham de Chinees -
Juko de Chinees was baptize - Abraham. 19 Feb 1702 te Caap de Goede Hoop.
(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRL9-7LN
It seem that he start using the surname Veij, and the name Abraham, after he was baptize.
Could "Veij" meaning he was "Free."?
See his Mooc document.
Reference no.: MOOC8/2.67
Testator(s):
Abraham de Veij.

On Leentjie van Batavia

Dito (1 August:) 1694 van Comp: slavinnen kinderen gedoopt
een kind van Leentje van Batavia, Leonora
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

30 dito (Octob 1695
een kind van Leenje van Bat': gent Alett[a]
http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

7 Dec 1695 Maria
[..] Decb: 1695
gedoopt het kint
van Adam Sol[p] en
Lena van Batavia
onder getuygen van
[... Cornelis] en Maria Schalck genaemt
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZN4-7R6?wc=M6GW-86F%3...

So great when people jump in to help research. Go guys!

Thanks all - good to chat about this! Even better to work with facts. Still not all the answers though - so the search goes on! This is ''my'' direct line and I am very protective of my ''oer moer'tjie'' like dear Corney thought me! Your efforts and inputs - are thus all appreciated! Yes - this is all so very interesting. Dear Marie - I just now need to ask - how do we then handle the master profile that has already been generated - ( a very long time ago) for ''my'' Maria Jacbos S/M/ PROG. I suppose you kindly then need to remove the duplicates you created? The master profile is the main profile - yes? I presume you will kindly do that then, Marie? I see that Judi is the curator there. I did mention this to Judi as well. Let's get this line sorted!
I am so happy - did you see her added dna? Now we have facts - I am going to drink water for a long time after paying for all of that! HA!
Thanks all - let's sort this out - in peace ..... might I add! Wilma Basson.

"ten eenre"
is legalese meaning " first " as in
first the widow... and then the mentioned children...

Just a couple of things:
1. Wilma Greyling (Basson) if I follow your direct maternal line on Geni.com, it leads to Françoise Retif i.e. Maria Mouy (http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g5/p5298.htm).
2. Maria Jacobs van Batavia, SM/PROG is your father's direct maternal ancestor i.e. you are not a direct maternal descendant of Maria Jacobs van Batavia, SM/PROG
3. I think it's clear from the above that "Heenre or even Eenre" is not a surname and that the truncated "He" you've referred to relates to He...el[slagh] as explained by Corney.

Drummond - Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.
Yes - you are 100% correct -I simply must learn to be more concise in my genealogy writing style! Maria Jacobs, SM/PROG is absolutely through my father's maternal line and the dna shows it as well. (I am just meaning I see myself connected to her, because she is maternally connected to my dad!)

Thanks so much for clearing up the Heenre / Eenre story / surname confusion on my side. Thanks Corney, Peter and Drummond.

Marie - you have spent a lot of time on this - we just now need to sort out the double profile. Thanks for all your research on this, much appreciated!

One more question: Is there any option that her surname can be spelled as Jacobsz?

Much appreciated all! Thanks Wilma and yes - I am still trying to learn as fast as I can! Patience please!)

Thanks Carel for the www of her master profile as well! Appreciated!

I will look at merging the two profiles when I get onto my computer.

The first time I notice the "Jacobs" Jacoba" next to Maria name, was when she did get married. I dont think her surname was Jacobs,

Name Abraham Veij van China
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 16 Apr 1702
Event Place Cape Town, Cape of Good Hope, South Africa
Spouse's Name Maria "Jacobs" , could be "Jacoba" van Batavia
Spouse's Marital Status Single
FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRL9-4SK

Marie Vermeulen-Boshoff
The name in the marriage entry is definitely 'Maria Jacobs'. See my transcription on: http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...

She is also named Maria Jacobz as witness to the baptism of Daniel: See my transcription on: http://www.eggsa.org/sarecords/index.php/church-registers/cape-town...
"12 Julij (1705)
van Jacob van Ceijlon en Catrina
van Ceylon, onder getuijge van Abram
de Vijf en Maria Jacobz gent:
- Daniel"

She is also named Maria Jacobs on the inventory of Abraham de Veij (MOOC 8/2.67) 28 April 1713
"Staat en inventaris van soodanige goederen als door d' ondergeteekende gecommitt:e Weesm:ren op approbatie van den h:r President en verdere Weesm:ren aen Maria Jacobs wed:e wijlen den vrij Chinees Abraham de Veij, uijt haeren gemeenen boedel in minderinge harer erfportie bij taxatie sijn overgelaten, als ...."

She is also named Maria Jacobsz in the estate papers of Abraham de Veij (MOOC 13-1-1-59)
"Generale reek:e van den boedel en goederen, naargelaten en met'er dood ont-rhijmt bij wijlen den vrij chinees Abraham de Veij ten voordeele van desselfs naer gelaten wed:e Maria Jacobsz ter eenre, ende desslefs drie minderjarige kinderen, genaemt Daniel, Christina en Beatrx Veij ter andere zijde."

There is no reason to believe her name was Maria Jacoba.

Cheers,
Corney Keller

Wilma Greyling (Basson)
Wilma, you asked: "One more question: Is there any option that her surname can be spelled as Jacobsz?"

Her surname was probably not Jacobs. It appears to be her patronymic, i.e. her father was probably named Jacob.
The correct patronymic would be Jacobsdochter, but usually written as Jacobs, but also Jacobse, Jacobz, Jacobsz, etc. All of these spellings are correct. General rule: if it sounds right, it is spelt right.

Cheers,
Corney Keller

Okay, I've merged the two together. This gives us a far more complete family tree - thanks to above input & Marie's work.
Please check that you are all happy.
The Abouts of all of them need to be neatened up and ratified.

I presumed the 'Nomko' father of Beatrix, is a Chinese transliteration, aka for Abraham Veij, & merged them together. Yell if anyone thinks this is wrong so we can unmerge quickly.

We now have two extra children on GEni: Juliana and Aletta van Bengalen (daughter of Antonij van Bengalen).

Marie Vermeulen-Boshoff & others can you check and decide if these two aren't the daughters of another Maria van Batavia? There seem to be three on Geni (I think the other two are managed by you as well, Marie)

Private please come & check that you're happy with this, as you Curate here.

On Leonora Bastro, Moller, b... ;s profile - a comment: "Leonora could have been the daughter of Abraham, but not of Maria Jacobs - she would have been mentioned in Abraham's inventory and vendu rol since she was still alive at the time - JS" Private I think this is you. I see Marie Vermeulen-Boshoff & Corney Keller discussing it above, & thought you might be interested to engage about it.

I totally agree with Corney that the Jacobz = the "patroniem". If it was Jacobs I would take it as a surname. Dankie Corney.