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Please do NOT merge unsourced duplicates into the MEDIEVAL tree

Started by Sharon Doubell on Friday, July 29, 2016
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Hi Craig Andrew Miles
Sorry, I see from your activities frequent this forum " Please do NOT merge unsourced duplicates into the MEDIEVAL tree" a lot..
..but then I continue to get medieval notifications like these:
-https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=83800985800
-https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=83800985000
-https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=83800984350

who leave the area with these conflicts:
-https://www.geni.com/photo/view/6000000007152232364?album_type=phot...

so sorry I have a little confused ideas, do we merge them or not, the entire medieval trees freshly duplicated?
_________
N.B. each of us can locate our own conflicts caused and abandoned in the tree by easily clicking:
*https://www.geni.com/list/tree_conflicts?order=&direction=&...

Sorry Livio Scremin what is your point?

What is it you want me to do, or not do. Please try to be clear.

Forgive me it it seems to me that you are a hard man to please.

Craig Andrew Miles - Livio Scremin has done a lot to keep the Medieval portion of the tree cleaned up.
To me, the best that we can do is post our tree matches in this time period and let the people who specialize in this area deal with them. (Reversing bad merges can take some time because it usually is not just one merge.)
When you do a merge, it may bring extra parents, siblings or children. All of these need to be merged with their counterparts. Also, any data conflicts should be resolved.

Craig Andrew Miles Livio's message seems clear to me. He was pointing out by providing a link that when you merge duplicate profiles, you need to go into the horizontal tree view and make sure you haven't created more conflicts. In this situation, the parents have duplicates. Who is merging those??

A great start would be to use the Descendants and Ancestors comparisons when you are looking at 2 possible duplicates (found under the profile box at the lower left when looking at profiles side by side prior to merging). Then you can see how many generations you need to follow it if you merge those 2 profiles.

Otherwise, for anything Medievel (say prior to 1450 end of Late Medievel Period) just copy the profile header in the browser and paste it here. Curators have more tools to separate descendants and ancestors which eliminates much of the problems with redundancies.

Thanks folks. I understand all of the points being made in good faith and apologise if I have in fact done the wrong thing (or not done the right thing), albeit unintentionally, at any point.

But I do think that some people could take a deep breath and bear in mind a few things.

Firstly, this is supposed to be a hobby-based activity, not a matter of life and death. While I understand that people invest a lot of time and energy in this, as do I, and are understandably protective of their own efforts, some individuals can be quick to try to apportion blame to others. This is one thing when the accused is actually responsible for the alleged crime, and another when they are not. Care should be taken in this.

Secondly, is it fair or appropriate to be critical of a person trying to fix an issue they have found in the belief that they are making an improvement? Maybe, as a result of the action, the outcome won't be perfect, but the overall situation could still be better than it was before the action. In the journey towards a perfect World Tree there are many tiny steps to be taken along the way. If each step moves towards the goal, however slowly, it is still a step in the right direction that had to be taken regardless.

And so if I find a profile with multiple sets of parents (a conflict to be resolved) and on the balance of probability these profiles are the same, does it not make sense to merge them? I understand that this in turn can and usually does lead to other conflicts being exposed, but my point is that those conflicts were already there regardless, they weren't actually really created by the "offending" merge. The "offence" was committed when the duplicates were added in the first place, or when one profile was incorrectly merged into another. But c'est la vie.

Yes, ideally every resulting conflict should then be resolved but for various reasons this is not always immediately possible - for example, due to one of the many quirks of Geni it is possible to merge 2 profiles and then not have permission to resolve any resulting conflicts.

Thirdly, if certain people believe that they have ownership of particular parts of the tree then I dont believe that this is something officially sanctioned by Geni and certainly is not in the spirit of a shared tree. To my knowledge the only special role supported by Geni, is that of Curator. Everyone else is equal.

Clearly the number of issues to be resolved In Geni exceeds the collective capacity to identify and resolve them or else I wouldnt keep stumbling across conflicts that in some case have been present for years. So willing contributors should be encouraged, or guided, as has happened to me previously on Geni by some generous individuals, not shot down in a public forum.

If there are a number of "rules of engagement" that a group of individuals believe should be generally abided by then I think that it would be helpful to document these rules clearly, have them sanctioned by Geni and make them publicly known. I don't think that it is reasonable to expect any user to gain an implicit understanding of the expectations mandated by a small subset of users either by osmosis or by interpreting the criticisms lodged in response to well-meaning actions.

An even better solution would be to have these "rules" enshrined in the functioning of the system by way of user permissions - if no non-curator is ever supposed to edit or merge a profile relating to a certain time period, then why does the system allow it? I am prevented from editing the profile of a private user so it would be possible to do the same for a medieval profile for example? I can only assume that Geni themselves are unwilling to impose such hard restrictions on their users unless absolutely necessary.

Anyway, from now on I will post every medieval conflict that I ever find to this forum for the self-appointed chosen ones to resolve, not expecting acknowledgement or response and never questioning why the all-seeing illuminati didn't find it for themselves in the first place.

I’ll say something from my point of view.

I encourage sourcing the medieval tree, first of all, and to me, that’s the only way to actually fix all of geni.

As to merging. It depends. If there are three dups and you can resolve conflicts immediately, it’s nuts to go through the effort of asking for isolating and deleting. If it’s a vanity tree back to a glamour ancestor, we need to educate members to request management if they’re so interested, ínstead of duplicating.

Craig, you’ve found some glorious knots to untie! I for one am quite grateful for your work.

1415
Petronella Brooksby
Has 2 husbands

And this week her daughters line has been duplicated for many generations

At least 13 generations of private historical profiles
https://www.geni.com/list/ancestors/6000000193532270845#13

Hendrik van Voorne, burggraaf van Zeeland (one pair of parents need isolating)
Catharina van (der) Merode (Merovingen) van den Bergh(en) van Voorne en Zeeland, DUP and her children need isolating. Probably more recent it needs to be cut too, but I can't see where.
(I sorry I started to merge - I should have know better)

I don't know.. Hubert de Vos
I'm trying to untangle but it's not that simple. This looks even more messed up than the previous Portugal /!\

it doesn't only seem like a duplication, over Derek / Theodor van (der) Merode (Merovingen) van den Bergh(en) van Voorne en Zeeland, DUP there are also the same names and different surnames, as if to make imperial connections.

and below, sideways, and above Gerhard van (der) Merode (Merovingen) van den Bergh(en) van Voorne en Zeeland, DUP it gets even worse..

for example exactly the same user,
in Adelaide van (der) Merode (Merovingen) van den Bergh(en) van Voorne en Zeeland
goes into triple duplication conflict on itself, on the exact same day. >.<

then summarizing,
isolated the ascent of Derek / Theodor van (der) Merode (Merovingen) van den Bergh(en) van Voorne en Zeeland, DUP ..
..that technically contending more than one duplicate can be requested cancellation of the entire climbing.
(if the user wasn't just following random auto-suggestions.. and has something decent in hand for Lothringen & Oberlothringen connections go ahead on the MP profiles:)
[but very very improvable seeing all the rest]

______________
on the other hand, regarding the ascent below, I think it is faster for everyone to contact the ADMNs of Johann Voorne & the last one (C) passed by there: Private User

if parenting turns out to be unfounded, with a little luck maybe we can isolate all the rest
((area of double triple duplication conflicts on itself, with temporal self time loops:))

Thank you Livio Scremin for what you already have done!
Yes that user left a difficult situation, especially because all the English surnames are the same most of the time; sometimes the correct(er) names are hiding on the German language tab. Not adding estimated years for births and/or deaths isn't helping either.

..solved but now the new CUT point is in Turstan de Bastembourg (Unknown parents)

how is it possible that a new user could have done all this undisturbed for years?

Turstah disconnected.

The rest of the tree is now uprooted ("No Path Found"), and since even I, who am no expert, can tell it's a hodg-podge of myth and misinformation, it should probably be sent to deletion.

I mean, didn't anyone NOTICE the fake tree for Rollo/Robert 1 of Normandy? DUP DO NOT MERGE Rollon / Hrolff Gange Rolv de Bastembourg

Has anyone else ever seen "Ragnvald" as a FEMALE name? (I haven't.) DUP TREE DO NOT MERGE Ragnvald de Bastembourg

Upper end of the pseudo-tree is here: DUP TREE DO NOT MERGE Halfdan de Bastembourg

The whole thing is a BLATANT attempt to claim a more ancient and more connected ancestry for the Bastembourgs than is actually known to exist.

...apologies for typoes, bad lighting and worn keycaps.

I invite you to manually descend from:
-David von Schottland, DUP TREE don't merge
to find yourself on him again after 9 generations below >.<

-https://www.geni.com/list/descendants/6000000178762131901#12 :D

Hate to tell you, Livio, but the entire tree is fake. "David von Schottland" is David I, King of Scots of the House of Dunkeld, and all that horseradish about "van (der) Merode (Merovingen) van den Bergh(en) van Voorne en Zeeland" is BOGUS BOGUS BOGUS.

Thank you Private User !
I would never have suspected it!!!
I had been plastering it with stickers and warnings for hours.. just to pass the time!!! XD

This is actually an important function for this discussion: to share genealogical knowledge.

My thanks.

-https://www.geni.com/path/Anslech-de-Bastembourg-source-PLZ+is+rela...
it's all part of the same same mega messed up duplication, (also all the others you read above:)

plus the rising branch of:
Derek / Theodor van (der) Merode (Merovingen) van den Bergh(en) van Voorne en Zeeland, DUP
isolated by me at the beginning, but still to be marked for deletion by (C) >.<

Something is seriously out of joint with the Henry Norreyses - they're half a century apart. "Henry 1295" has NO documentation whatsoever and is probably part of a highly defective tree.

This is probably the real one: Sir Henry Norreys

This one is highly questionable at best: Henry 1295 Norreys / Norris

/!\ Private User /!\

I think the profile has been hacked,
massive vandalism of connections everywhere under 1000 is underway

example:
*https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=83820231860
*https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=83820223240 /!\ /!\ /!\

but many many others, and in rapid succession.
I suggest fast immediate red stripe on Private User

UNDO not enough,
connections remained, names spanishized, and even took possession of the MPs blocking them from changes..
example:
-Desiderius, King of the Lombards
and his new connections
______

I started seeing random inserts and merges here..
Teresa (Tareja) Soares
..just look at the changelog: same first name different last name, --> merge = connected line.

stickers & warnings ignored or removed
(here forgot to remove the notes inside though:)

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