Judah Allen - Judah Allen of Sandwich and Dartmouth MA, abt. 1695-1770

Richardson I used this information that you provided to do some work around Judah Allen
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000003938849717

"Judah died by 31 Dec 1770, based on bonds for his wife's children:

Bristol Co. Probate records, v. 5, [Bristol Co. Probate Originals, Film 0549851] Bond 31 Dec 1770 of Elizabeth Allen widow, Noah Allen yeoman (father of Elizabeth) & Reuben Winslow yeoman all of Dartmouth, Elizabeth administratrix of Juday Allen of Dartmouth dec'd; & Judah Allen of Dartmouth grants to children Noah & Rebecah Allen all goods & personal estate, wife Elizabeth to have improvement, witnesses swore __ tues Mar 1771.

Bristol Co. Probate records, v. 6 [Bristol Co. Probate Originals, Film 0549852] Bond 31[?] Dec 1770 of Elizabeth Allen widow, Noah Allen yeoman (father of Elizabeth) & Reuben Winslow yeoman all of Dartmouth, Elizabeth guardian of Rebecca Allen <14 dau. of Judah Allen late of Dartmouth dec'd; & bond 31 Dec 1770 of Elizabeth Allen widow, Noah Allen yeoman & Reuben Winslow yeoman all of Dartmouth, Noah guardian of Noah Allen <14 son of Judah Allen late of Dartmouth.

Intention of marriage between Elisabeth Allen, widow of Judah Allen, and Daniel Ormsby, all of Dartmouth, 16 Nov 1771 [New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1929-1930, Vital records of Dartmouth Massachusetts to the year 1850, v. 2, p. 22]

Sincerely, Richardson Allen

<<I want to copy over some of the messages that Richardson B. Allen
William Arthur Allen have been discussing in an 'Attention Managers Message" my reasoning is so that 'All' profiles we tag here will show in the 'Discussion' tab of their profiles>>

"Richardson Allen
11/3/2017 at 9:07 PM
Angus,

I am just starting to learn GENI, and only have a basic subscription, so I wasn't sure how to start a discussion. That is why I sent the email to you. In addition, I added a document to the profile that lists all the records for Judah. Judah is my ggggg grandfather. What I would really like to do is correct the profile, which has numerous errors, and I'm not sure that I can do that given my subscription. For example, he was born in Sandwich, not Pembroke, and his birth was not recorded (page missing!). He married 1) Rebecca Wing daughter of Ebenezer Wing, and married 2) Elizabeth Allen daughter of Noah Allen. His first son was John Allen, not John Wing Allen. Judah had two older brothers, Isaac and Benjamin, and no half siblings. He also had two children by Elizabeth, Noah and Rebecca. This is all based on the records in the text that I attached to the profile. So I think that the profile requires major editing"

Angus Wood-Salomon
11/3/2017 at 11:00 PM
Ok I would help correct those errors with all of your help..

Richardson Allen and William Arthur Allen
Please review what I have done
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000003938849717

"William Arthur Allen
yesterday at 12:06 AM
Richardson,
Thanks for posting the data. I put a dated title on your post in the "About" section of Judah Allen's GENI profile.

Angus,
I already see Judah's death date changed from 1771 to 1770 based on the source provided by Richardson Allen. Judah's profile has MP status. Does that mean that no other researcher can change Richardson's data within GENI?

"Angus Wood-Salomon
yesterday at 11:17 AM
Richardson to keep all the messages here, just click on "Reply All' I have copied your reply to me here so everyone can see it

I have taken the liberty of spacing out the paragraphs

"Angus,
The changes to Judah Allen look good, but the profile still has a number of errors:

1) in the early 1600's, there were 3 George Allens in Sandwich. The first was born by 1640, son of Ralph Allen Sr., and commonly listed as John Sr.

The second was John Allen son of George Allen (Jr.), born on 6 mo:1657 or 5 Aug 1658, commonly called Jr.

The third was a John Allen who married Elizabeth Bacon in 1650 and immediately moved to Newport, RI.

John Sr. was the son of Isaac, Benjamin and Judah Allen.

John Sr. has been a problem, because he only married in about 1690 when he was already about 50 old or older. This is the husband of a Rebecca (last name unknown).

John Jr. is also a problem. George Jr. granted some land in Sandwich in 1686 to his son John, but there are limited data on John.

The third is John Allen of Newport, who died at son-in- law's Rowland Robinson in Kingstown, RI in 1708. It is this John and Elizabeth (Bacon) Allen who is listed in the GENi tree of Judah Allen, but he is NOT related to Judah. Jedediah Allen, son of Ralph Jr., left a will in NJ that mentions a Mary Allen who was probably a granddaughter of John of Newport.

So, we have three John Allens:
1) John Sr., son of Ralph Allen Sr., who married a Rebecca, and was father of Judah Allen

2) John Jr., who was a son of George Allen and grandson of George Allen Sr. of Sandwich. He may be the John Allen who moved from Sandwich to NJ in 1696.

3) John Allen who married Elizabeth Bacon and moved to Newport RI.

Judah Allen's line is Judah, son of John Sr., grandson of Ralph Sr. (NOT Ralph Jr.!), and great grandson of George Allen of Sandwich. So the half siblings listed in the profile of Judah are children of John Allen of Newport, and actually not related to Judah in any way. So the profile still needs major corrections.

Finally, the John Allen who married Mary Howland in 1674 was a son of Thomas Allyn of Braunton, Devonshire, England and Barnstable, MA.
Richardson

"Angus Wood-Salomon
yesterday at 11:19 AM
Richardson you said " 1) in the early 1600's, there were '3 George Allens in Sandwich'. The first was born by 1640, son of Ralph Allen Sr., and commonly listed as John Sr."

I am assuming you meant '3 John Allens in Sandwich'

"Richardson Allen
yesterday at 11:33 AM
Angus,

Yes, that was my worst error in the email. It should have been "in the 1600's, there were 3 John Allens in Sandwich." Need to be more careful when I send out emails! Starting to prepare a text on Judah's father, John Allen. I can see data from four John Allens in the profile and tree of Judah. I also may attach my text on the two Ralph Allens of Sandwich in the Judah Allen profile, or at least a link, since the tree has the wrong Ralph.

Richardson

Angus Wood-Salomon
yesterday at 11:42 AM
"The first was born by 1640, son of Ralph Allen Sr., and commonly listed as John Sr."
John Allen, of Sandwich
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669482217
I have added 'Sr. as a suffix for him

"The second was John Allen son of George Allen (Jr.), born on 6 mo:1657 or 5 Aug 1658, commonly called Jr.
John the twin Allen
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000001529180162
I have added 'Jr." as a suffix for him

"The third was a John Allen who married Elizabeth Bacon in 1650 and immediately moved to Newport, RI."

According to Geni this is same as the second
John Allen, of Sandwich
Elizabeth Allen
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000000619397678

"Angus Wood-Salomon
yesterday at 11:48 AM
You said "John Sr. was the son of Isaac, Benjamin and Judah Allen."

Please explain

"William Arthur Allen
yesterday at 2:54 PM
Richardson,
It would be very helpful in distinguishing the two Ralph Allens if you and others referred to one as Ralph "Wheelright" Allen and the other as Ralph "Stonemason" Allen. Angus and others at GENI already use these labels. Thanks.
Bill

"Angus Wood-Salomon
yesterday at 3:18 PM
Richardson you said "Judah Allen's line is Judah, son of John Sr., grandson of Ralph Sr. (NOT Ralph Jr.!), and great grandson of George Allen of Sandwich"

I am going to show the tree focused on Judah Allen, I like setting my preferences to display generations of 1 ancestor and 1 descendants
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000003938849717

If you look at the tree it shows his father as https://www.geni.com/people/John-Allen-Sr-of-Sandwich/6000000012669... and mother as Rebecca Landers
Is this correct?

Now focusing the tree on John Allen Sr.
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669482217

It shows John Allen Sr father as Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich https://www.geni.com/people/Ralph-Allen-Jr-of-Sandwich/600000001266... and NN Allen

But are you saying his father should be Ralph 'Wheelright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich Ralph 'Wheelwright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich

Angus,
Feel free to copy anything I have written in any discussion to whatever other discussion you feel would be helpful.

This should be
"It shows John Allen Sr father as Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich and NN Allen

Richardson Allen
yesterday at 4:09 PM
Angus,

I'll go through the various emails.

1) Ralph Allen (Jr. or Stonemason) had no son John Allen. So the only John Allen who was a son of a Ralph Allen is Ralph Sr.

2) Tree hJohn Allen, of Sandwich
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669482217

Elizabeth was the wife of John Allen of Newport. John Sr., father of Isaac, Benjamin and Judah, was only married once, in about 1690, to a Rebecca (last name not known).

3) Tree Rebecca Landers is correct in listing one husband for Rebecca, although I have never found a middle E. in the original records. The half siblings are all children of John and Elizabeth (Bacon) Allen of Newport, and there is no evidence that Rebecca was related to John of Newport.

4) Tree https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669482217 shows Ralph Allen Jr. (stonemason) as father of John Allen Sr., again not correct. Ralph Jr. had no son John. Ralph Jr. had only four known children: Jedediah b. 3 Jan 1646(/7), Hester Allen b. 8 Dec 1648, Experience Allen b. 14 Mar 1651(/2), and Ephraim Allen b. 26 Mar 1656. John Sr. was first mentioned in court records in 1658, so probably born in 1640 or earlier. So John Sr. was older than Ralph Jr.'s children. John Sr. lived in Sandwich near to Ralph Sr. (wheelright) for his whole life after they moved to Sandwich in about 1650. Ralph Sr.'s son Joseph was also mention in court records in 1658, so probably born in 1640 or earlier.
Part of the trouble of John Allen Sr. is that he first married Rebecca when he was about 50 or older, and there is no evidence that he had an earlier marriage. The Y-DNA suggests that John was adopted or illegitimate, or something similar, so this might be why he was not married earlier.

Next email next!
Richardson

Angus,
Feel free to copy anything I have written in any discussion to whatever other discussion you feel would be helpful.

Richardson Allen
yesterday at 7:42 PM
Hello,
I will try to answer all the other questions that have come up in the last day.

1) my text said John Sr. was the son of Isaac, Benjamin and Judah Allen. Another mistake. John Sr. was the FATHER of Isaac, Benjamin and Judah.

2) Rebecca Landers profile shows Rebecca was the wife of John Allen Sr., which is right. I'm not aware of where her birth comes but it looks reasonable given her date of death. The stepdaughters and stepsons: Mary Robinson, Priscilla Allen, Hannah Tompkins, Samuel Allen, Benjamin Allen, Mercy Duncan and John Allen, match the children of John and Elizabeth (Bacon) Allen of Newport RI, one of the other John Allens of Sandwich. I have Elizabeth Tompkins rather than Hannah Tompkins.

3) https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000003939876506 looks good. I only see one problem, Judah married 1) Rebecca Wing, and 2) Elizabeth Allen, while the tree shows Elizabeth above Rebecca.

4) Bill, I tend to use Ralph Sr. and Ralph Jr., rather then wheelwright and stonemason, because Sr. and Jr. are much more common than wheelwright and stonemason in the records.

5) John Allen, of Sandwich shows that John Sr. was born in Barnstable (but birth is not known!), died in South Kingstown RI (that was John of Newport RI), shows his father of Ralph Jr (but is son of Ralph Sr.), NN Allen unknown(!), shows wives of Mary Allyn (actually wife of John Allyn of Barnstable, not John Sr.), Elizabeth Allen (actually Elizabeth Bacon wife of John Allen of Newport), Rebecca E. Allen (I'm not sure where the E. comes from), father of (includes children of John of Newport and John Sr.), brother Ralph Allen (Ralph Jr. possibly was a brother of John of Newport, but not supported by any records), and half siblings (children of Ralph Jr., so possibly nephews and neices of John of Newport. Jedediah left a will in NJ which left some money to a Mary Allen, possibly a granddaughter of John of Newport). So this profile appears to include three John Allens, but the only data on John Allen Sr. of Sandwich is his wife Rebecca and his three sons Isaac, Benjamin and Judah).

6) https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669482217. I think that I discussed this in the prior message.

7) Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich, the birth in Thurcaston, Leicestershire (disapproved), death on 26 Feb 1658 (quite possible but I've never seen the record), wife of Esther (Swift) Bull (Ralph Jr. died in about 1658-1659, and his wife Esther Swift second married Henry Bull of Newport as his second wife, Henry married 3 an Ann (not sure of her last name)), sons (Ralph Allen; John Allen, Sr, of Sandwich as sons not correct, Jedediah Allen; Esther Allen; Experience Allen; and Ephraim Allen are children of Ralph Jr.

8) NN Allen The wife of Ralph Jr. married after the births of Ralph Sr. and John Sr. Again, the earlier wife may refer to the disapproved Thurcaston, Leicestershire Ralph Allen.

9) Ralph 'Wheelwright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich yes, I think that John Sr. was the first child of Ralph Sr. This lists his first child as Esther Andrews, but his will shows that his first child was John Allen Sr. If your replace Esther with John, Ralph Sr.'s will mentions his children John, and sons Joseph, Increase, Ebenezer, Zachariah, and daughter Patiance (Patience). Ralph Sr.'s sons Phillip and Benjamin died young in RI. He also had a half brother Samuel Allen by George's second wife. Although Samuel has never been identified after 1656, I think that he moved to Fairfield, CT, and finally settled on Great Neck on Long Island. But there are major gaps in the story!

I think that this completes the questions over the last day, but like before there may be errors in the message. In the future, I'll be preparing any messages using a text editor and pasting the results in the thread.
Richardson

Angus,
I have no problem with that. I have a text of Judah and his ancestors, 30 pages in PDF. Do you want me to put that someplace?
Richardson

Thanks to you both.

Ok here is my course of action I am going to disconnect John Allen, of Sandwich from Ralph 'Stonemason' Allen, Jr, of Sandwich and add as son of Ralph 'Wheelwright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich I will add his mother after.

Here is the tree focused on him
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669482217

For the moment to be able to disconnect the wives from John Allen, of Sandwich i am going to create profiles as placeholders until we find the correct ones

Richardson you said "Elizabeth was the wife of John Allen of Newport.'

I created a 'Placeholder profile for John of Newport and transferred Elizabeth Bacon to him and her
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669482217#60000000...

Please check

OK. I looked at the profile, and there a couple of problems:
1) Esther Andrews and Mary Allen are not daughters of Ralph Sr. Ralph had only one daughter based on the records, Patience.
2) Ralph Sr. had another half-brother that many people ignore, Samuel Allen. Samuel and his brother Henry sold land in Sandwich given to them in George (Sr.'s) will. Henry and Samuel sold the land to their half-brother George Allen (Jr.) in 1656.
Richardson

" shows wives of Mary Allyn (actually wife of John Allyn of Barnstable, not John Sr.)"

I disconnected her from John Allen, of Sandwich and added a placeholder profile for John Allyn.. here is the tree focused on her https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000051471577833

I moved her son Benjamin Allen also. I do not know if it is correct

This is how the tree focused on John Allen, of Sandwich looks now https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669482217

Sorry, Ralph Sr. did have a daughter Mary Allen:
"meary Allen dafter of Ralph Allen Senour was buried 18:2mo:1675" [Sandwich, Town & Vital Records, 1651-1691, Original, FHL film 0904579, item 1, p. 219]
Richardson

Richardson you said
"Ralph Jr. had no son John. Ralph Jr. had only four known children: Jedediah b. 3 Jan 1646(/7), Hester Allen b. 8 Dec 1648, Experience Allen b. 14 Mar 1651(/2), and Ephraim Allen b. 26 Mar 1656."

Here is the tree focused on Ralph Jr
https://www.geni.com/family-tree/index/6000000012669399266 as you can see there is still a leftover wife NN allen who was showing as mother to John Allen Sr. until he was moved and a brother Ralph Allen

Any idea where Ralph belongs?

Angus,
As the tree looks now GENI has propogated Y-DNA I-M253 back from Judah Allen to his father John Allen, Sr. of Sandwich and also back to Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr. of Sandwich, but Y-DNA I-M253 is not propogated to George Allen, father of Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr. Are you sure that Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr of Sandwich carries Y-DNA I-M253?

The contemporary Holloway men of Sandwich who carried Y-DNA I-M253 undoutedly (in my mind) play a role in the story of the ancestors of Judah Allen since more Holloway/Holley/Hawley/Holway men show as Y-DNA I-M253 matches to me than Allens in my FTDNA report.. I think there is very high likelihood that biologically my ancestors prior to the 1600's were Halloways, not Allens.

The first wife of Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr of Sandwich is Sussanah but her birth name is not recorded in here GENI profile. It is not clear to me whether she had an earlier husband before she married Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr. of Sandwich. If she did and if she is the mother of John Allen, Sr. of Sandwich and if the biological father of John Allen, Sr of Sandwich was a Holloway of Sandwich, that could explain how the Y-DNA I-M253 of early Holloway men got into the Allen family line from John Allen and subsequently his descendants.

When I ran a GENI relationship check between me and Susannah Allen she accurately is recorded as my 8th great grandfather's 1st wife The relationship path looks like this..

Me (William Arthur Allen)

→

William Worden Allen
your father

→

George William Allen
his father

→

William Henry Allen
his father

→

Hiram E Allen
his father

→

Barnabas Allen
his father

→

Ebenezer Allen
his father

→

Ebenezer Allen
his father

→

Judah Allen
his father

→

John Allen, Sr, of Sandwich
his father

→

Ralph 'Wheelright' Allen, Sr., of Sandwich
his father

→

Susannah Allen
his wife

There is a helpful caution on the header for Susannah Allen worded as follows:

"This is the Master Profile for Susannah Allen.
Curator Note from Angus Wood-Salomon (9/25/2014):

ATTENTION: Susannah, wife of Ralph Allen was not the daughter of William and Joan Sisson Swift, nor was she a Swift at all. Esther Swift, daughter of William and Joan, married a different Ralph Allen. Please do not merge her with anyone named Esther Susan."

I think 2 things need clarification on that Curator Note.
1. When referring to Susannah's husband Ralph call him Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr. of Sandwich.
2. Double check that you want "Esther Susan" as the name in your merge caution.

Thanks, Angus, for all your work on this file.

William Arthur Allen

To Angus and William,
First, we have no records for Ralph Allen Jr. (stonemason) prior to the birth of his first son Jedediah Allen Jan 3 1646[/7?]. The only earlier record that can not tied clearly to Ralph Sr. was a list of "Inhabitants admitted at the Towne of Nieu-Port since the 20th of the 3d, 1638" includes Samuel Allen, George Allen & Ralph Allen [all 6 Aug 1638?]. The three Allens are listed together. Of the three, the Samuel can not be Samuel Allen son of George, who would be too young. George son of George would have been about 19 years old, so I'm not sure that he could could be accepted as a freeman at that age. Either Ralph might have been old enough for this, but all of the records for both Ralphs are later than 1638. So I have no idea how to handle this record in terms of the two Ralphs treated in this discussion. I think that Ralph Jr. had 5 children, all born in Sandwich.:
Jediah [Jedediah] born 3 Jan 1646[/7?]
Hester Allen born 8 Dec 1648(?)
Ebenezer Allen born 10 Feb 1649[/50?]
Experience born 14 Mar 1651[/2?]
Ephraim Allen born 26 Mar 1656
When Ralph Jr. died, all of his land was passed down to his son Jedediah Allen. The will of Joan Swift, grandmother of Jedediah and Experience, shows that Ralph's wife only had two surviving children in 1663:
Will of Joan Swift dated 12: 8mo: 1662, inventoried 25: 10mo: 1663, includes: to grandchild Experience Allen chest of drawers & bible; to my 2 grandchildren Hannah Swift & Experience Allen all linen and pewter; to Jedediah Allen & Experience Allen 1/3 of estate House & garden; and debt from Francis Allen [Plymouth Colony Wills, FHL film 0567794, v. 2, part 2, p. 16.
The only other mention of Experience is the family Bible of Jedediah [NEHGR, v. 25, p. 146]. His Bible lists the deaths of his father and mother, and Experience, but the months and years of their deaths are lost. Jedediah's first child was Experience, b. 30 Aug 1669, which suggests that Experience daughter of Ralph had died by 1669.
In summary, all of the records suggest that Ralph Jr. (stonemason) did not have a earlier wife.
Concerning the Y-DNA of Ralph-John Sr.-Judah Allen, when I started looking for information years ago, I was able to collect some data on descendants of George Allen. One of the items was a line for Ralph Sr.'s son, Joseph Allen. This showed that Joseph, Ralph's second son, had the normal Y-DNA of descendants of George Allen, and not similar to the Y-DNA of Ralph's son John. So whatever happened in our line in the Y-DNA, it involved either Ralph's son John or his grandson Judah Allen.
Finally, Susannah wife of Ralph Allen Sr. (wheelwright) was first mentioned in witnesses to a Quaker marriage in 1676. So we have no evidence that Susannah was actually the mother of Ralph's children.
Richardson

I will continue in the morning had to have some family time

William Arthur Allen
You said "Angus,
As the tree looks now GENI has propogated Y-DNA I-M253 back from Judah Allen to his father John Allen, Sr. of Sandwich and also back to Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr. of Sandwich, but Y-DNA I-M253 is not propogated to George Allen, father of Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr.

Are you sure that Ralph "Wheelright" Allen, Sr of Sandwich carries Y-DNA I-M253?"

I am not very well versed regarding DNA, I am going to see if another Curator can help with your questions or if you wish you can post your questions in this discussion https://www.geni.com/discussions/157595?msg=1175459