South African mtDNA N1a (French Huguenot)

Where is the DNA showing?

Sharon,

For Suzanne Briet:
Louw van Deventer [confirmed by genetic test as N1a]
No DNA uploaded to Geni however,

For Suzanne de Vos:
Johannes Pienaar [Confirmed N1a by DNA test]
His mtDNA has been uploaded to Geni.

I'm assisting a direct maternal descendant of Suzanne de Vos, via Maria Susanna Pretorius (Griesel). My hope is that she'll consider an FMS mtDNA test.

I'll tag Johannes Pienaar here for future reference. :D

That's very interesting, Drummond. Which Louw? Private or Private or Lourens Andries Stefanus Van Deventer

Private in the South African mtDNA - Female Progenitors project under Suzanne Briet.

As was pointed out though in https://www.geni.com/discussions/183956?msg=1231216#reply Suzanne de Vos' mother might actually be Suzenne Absolon not Jeanne Francomme. I've contacted Ghislaine le Mauff for more information on de Vos / Absolon family; awaiting her reply.

Are we sure about Suzanne Briet's provenance?

Purely out of curiosity, Jean de Vos (Francomme) was added as Suzanne de Vos's mother by John Dinkelmann back in 2012 and later Jennifer Ann Goldhill added Abraham de Vos as her father. What were the sources? I'm happy we now have a translation of a primary record (thank you Daan) showing different provenance and two profiles Abraham de Vos and Jeanne Francomme essentially floating in the aether. Do we have any evidence for the existence of Abraham and Jeanne Francomme?

Drummond - did you see the Discussion from Suzanne deVos' profile about this?

Drummond, on Jean de Vos (Francomme) and Suzanne de Vos. It is interesting to note, under Suzanne de Vos' sources, June Barnes added a copy of a chapter (9 - From Flanders to Alsace) from Boucher's "French speakers at the Cape in the first hundred years of Dutch East India Company rule".

This is interesting as it mentions the various Huguenot families that arrived in the Cape.

More specifically, a Jean Francomme is mentioned on page 252 merely to say that Jean Nourtier was godfather to Susanne, daughter of Jean Francomme. Francomme's son, also Jean, became an elder of the Dover church and was still living there when the last service was held in 1731. It may be inferred that Jean Francomme is most likely a man and one possible reason why there seems a disconnect now that we have documentation on Suzanne de Vos, specifically connected to Pierre Jacobs.

Also on page 252 it mentions that the Jacob family arrived in the Cape in 1688 from Guines. Pierre Jacob was married to Susanne de Vos, of Flemish stock, and both families were from Vieille-Eglise. It notes that there were also other Vos and Jacob families in Calais.

One other Vos family it mentions lived in the hamlet of Nouvelle-Eglise, and another Susanne de Vos became the wife of widower Jean de Bus July 28, 1680. A Jean de Bus sailed on the Oosterland in 1688 and could be the same, but as the name is frequently encountered in the Guines registers, it cannot be confirmed. Here certainly is another Suzanne de Vos, and further evidences the problem with adding and merging without actual paper evidence confirming that these are the same Suzanne de Vos'.

Page 253 notes that Pierre Jacob and Suzanne de Vos brought three children to the Cape: Susanne (Sept 9, 1671), Daniel (Sept 14, 1673 and Sara (Oct 7, 1677).

Naturally, the book has the various references on their research - which I understand is quite extensive.

Sharon, which one there are 5 discussions total currently under Suzanne de Vos MP incl. this one? Would you mind linking the one you’re referring to here?

Valeta, thank you. We used Boucher’s book as reference in our article for Genesis on Anne Souchay; such a wealth of information in it.

I’m also curious about the link between Suzanne de Vos and Suzanne Briet as according to project they share the same mtDNA haplogroup (not uncommon, but curious and certainly an avenue for further research).

That explains re: Jean Francomme, what about Abraham de Vos in context of Suzanne de Vos?

Abraham de Vos is a bit of a mystery to me, I haven't found information on him and would love to see the information used when he was originally added as Suzenne de Vos' father. Boucher's book does make it clear that there were other de Vos', but I don't see any specific references to them. Furthermore, with other Suzanne de Vos mentioned, there is a strong likelihood that Abraham did have a daughter called Suzanne, but just not the Suzanne married to Pierre Jacob.

As for Briet, I can only confess to not knowing or having any information there either.

Should the mtdna not just follow mother to mother to mother ?

Suzanne to Sara Jacobs to Marie de Buis to ---?

Have to be on proper connection to add the line properly .
Will try tomorrow

Here is a 3rd profile directly connecting N1A mtDNA to Briet

Private User

I've checked the mtDNA tree of Johannes Pienaar and it is correct and sourced and does go to Suzanne DE VOS. So we do have

Suzanne Taillefert

Suzanne de Vos, SM/PROG

different surnames, same names and mtDNA, but suspect both mtDNA results (here with 3 donors) incorrect for non-Arabian? And to date only N1A at the Cape...

So on N1A... it is rare in Europe but it IS found in 0.2% of Europeans (presumably currently). From Wikipedia copying: "The Africa/South Asia branch is characterized by the 16147G mutation, whereas the European branch is characterized by 16147A, 3336 and 16320. The Central Asian subcluster is an offshoot of the European branch that is characterized by marker 16189." so perhaps we need a bit more information regarding mutations/markers from the donors, as these mutations/markets thousands of years old..

Agree with Sharon and Jan
Such a rare mtdna in Europe definitely points to same origin.

If mtdna done by FTDNA then markers usually included.
Would be wonderful to place the mtdna origin.

Courtain and van Loo origin likely Pas de Calais and Belgium.
Not very far from one another.

Modern mtdna N1a in Europe from Sweden, Norway ,UK ,Germany ,France,Belgium ,Poland on FTDNA

Lourens van Deventer is Mtdna U5 ancestor Françoise Martinet SM/Prog

Elisabet Gahide 1655 from Pas de Calais also N1a.
So that mtdna very likely from North West France / Belgium

Looking for N1a1a2 mtdna