Nana Givens (Pushmataha) - Nana Pushmataha and Samuel Givens

Started by Pam Wilson (on hiatus) on Sunday, October 27, 2019
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10/27/2019 at 7:36 PM

There are some major problems with the marriage and children of Samuel Givens 1762-1846 Samuel E. Givens and Nana Pushmataha born 1881 Nana Givens. Some of their proposed children have birthdates in the 1690s, some in the 1700s and some in the 1800s--but all long before Nana the supposed mother was born.

I detached Nana from this Samuel, thinking she must have been married to a later Samuel. But the few things I find online say she was married to this Samuel. I found a Pension form for him that declared that he and his wife Lucinda Cook married in 1836 in Mecklenburg County, NC. He would have been an old man by then. He was born and died in NC. Clearly he had an earlier wife and probably children in his younger years.

I've left the children linked under him, but it's not clear which ones belong to him. If Nana were a century older, as I suspect she is (given that her Geni father was dead by the time of her 1881 birthdate), was she the early wife? It is hard to figure out what the dates might have been since the father given for Nana is the same age as Samuel Givens, which would place her too young to have birthed the older children (especially the ones born in the 1600s! haha).

Help is needed by those who know this family and/or have some documentation.

10/27/2019 at 7:54 PM

Here is a link to Nana's supposed father: Pushmataha, Principal Chief of the Choctaw Nation

Also, in addition to jumping through all these timing hoops, I'm wondering about the geography--
if she and her indigenous Choctaw family were in Mississippi, how would she have met and married Samuel Givens who lived in the Mecklenburg County, NC area all his life?

Erica Howton, since you've worked on the father's profile--any ideas?

10/27/2019 at 11:20 PM

Pam Wilson (on hiatus) If you examine the “about” you’ll see that my role for Pushmataha is custodial / curatorial, and not as a researcher.

Choctaw and Mississippi are not in my own trees at all - I’m a Kentucky & Tennessee gal with some WV. So I just don’t encounter in any substantial way to be able to offer insight.

10/28/2019 at 4:26 AM

Samuel givens was my 5 great-grandfather. Nana was his first wife. He married Lucinda Cook in Georgia in 1836 not Nana. A book History of Stewart County Georgia has a lot of information on the Evans and Givens in including wills.

10/28/2019 at 4:51 AM

Samuel Givens died in Union County North Carolina in 1846.. He left a will naming his children and listed Lucinda name as Lucy as his wife.

10/28/2019 at 4:58 AM

By 1810 and other census records he lived in York County, South Carolina.

10/28/2019 at 1:07 PM

Robert, can you provide any accurate dates for Nana, and also provide the names and dates of the children she had with Samuel Givens?

10/28/2019 at 5:53 PM

Samuel Givens was born 1762 died 1846t. Nana was born about 1780 died unknown. Samuel Givens will dated March 1846 in Union County North Carolina listed, James, Margaret,, John, Allen, William, Robert, Samuel, And George A. Givens as his Children. They were born from about 1795-1815. Ancestry has his will and other documents. Send me your email to and I will send you documents.

10/28/2019 at 5:57 PM

I got a lot of information from the Cathy family who thy Givens married into. They came tol North Carolina with the Cathy family.

10/28/2019 at 11:56 PM

Robert, could you upload the documents to Samuel's profile on Geni?

10/30/2019 at 6:50 AM

Whoever Nana Givens was she was not the daughter of Pushmataha (abt. 1764-1824). Only one child, a son, is known for certain. There are three or four other possible children, all lived in the Choctaw Nation in Mississippi.

10/30/2019 at 8:14 AM

I had a letter that was written by Susan Evans daughter of Columbus Evans telling how she was kin to Pushmataha. She listed Columbus Evans and Nancy Givens as her Parents. She listed James Givens and Mary Shirling as Nancy Givens parent He listed She listed Samuel Givens and Nana as James Givens parents. She listed Pushmataha as Nana father. The letter was written in 1911 to someone. I been searching to see If I can find a copy of the letter on the interrnet.The letter and most I had a fire and my computer and most of research was destroyed.

10/30/2019 at 4:54 PM

Tthere is a memorial for Running Deer Anderson. Number 65732578.. Her tombstone say Das of Choctaw Chief Pushmataha. Born 1780 died 1854 Mississippi. She married Joseph Anderson.

10/30/2019 at 6:46 PM

Everyone Mississippi History instructors in High School required classes all know that Brig Gen Pushmataha had at least 30 children, 2 Treaty wives, and ran about as many estates as did his contemporary and fellow treaty Translator, Simon Farve, and also Pushmataha was very connected to Jackson and was adopted by the Choctaw. Whom those 30 children are is unknown other than from the treaty wives.

10/31/2019 at 4:51 AM

Regardless of how many children the man fathered, they didn’t live in North Carolina where Samuel Givens lived.

10/31/2019 at 7:47 AM

Kathyn look on the tombstone application for Samuel Givens died 18466 it say that he served in the South Carolina Militia That means ne was living in South Carolina during the American revolution.. In my great aunt letter said he lived i n Mississippi and South Carolina. The copy of the application is on Samuel C> Givens site We have no record where all people was living in the 1700 and 1800. No record was kept of their movement.

10/31/2019 at 12:34 PM

We actually know quite a lot about Samuel Givens because
he was a Revolutionary War soldier who filed an application
for a pension. Those applications are incredibly detailed,
and Samuel's said:
He was 70 years old (in 1832); he had no record of his age but
believed he was born in 1762.
He was born in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina
He gave his deposition in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina
The people who gave supporting affidavits lived in Mecklenburg County
He entered the service in the summer of 1780 served six weeks
Re-enlisted in the spring of 1781, was transferred to a South Carolina
unit, served 10 months.
He was in the Battle of Eutaw Springs and traveled through
South Carolina and Georgia, returning to Orangeburg, South Carolina
where he was discharged in February, 1782
He testified that he returned to Mecklenburg and had lived there ever
since his discharge

He made no mention of a wife or children in the pension affidavit

Lucinda Givens, his widow, stated that they were married in 1836
and Samuel died in 1846, all in Mecklenburg County.

He has descendants enrolled in the Daughters of the American Revolution.
They list a descent through a son also named Samuel (who married Mary
Pittman), born 1779 to Samuel and Lucy Pardue Givens.

He is most likely the Samuel Givvins found on the 1790 U.S. Census in
Mecklenburg with a wife and two sons

The 1810 census in the same place shows Samuel with a family of 10
He also appears on the 1820, 1830, and 1840 censuses, all in Mecklenburg
Hi first wife must have died between 1830 and 1836 since every census shows
him living with an adult female.

10/31/2019 at 2:03 PM

Lucy was his second wife. Can you pr4ove that he di not married Nana as his first wife? James s son of ,Samuue lwas my 3rd.great grandfather. He had children in Georgia. Nancy his Givens married Columbus Evans in Stewart County, Georgia. in 1834. James was living in Mecklenburg County in 1820 with a census records. He was living in Putman County, Georgia in 1830 by census records.with a wife and two children Name Nancy and Margaret Givens. James married Mary Shirrling daughter of Isom Shrilling by Isom Shrilling will in Georgia. Send me your email and I can document the information on James in Georgia. You can check the census records and se both James Givens are the same. See by Samuel Will 18r46 in Mecklenburg County Georgia he had a son name James. I ddownloaded Samuel Givens will on Samuel Givens site.

10/31/2019 at 2:59 PM

The son listed on the DAR site was born in 1779 and his mother is listed as Lucy Pardue. Someone would have to request the actual documents to see what proof was provided for the parents of Samuel Givers the younger. It’s also impossible to prove a negative, but for Samuel to have married a Choctaw woman before 1779 someone needs to place him in Mississippi, a place never connected to him in any record. Even if “Nana” was his first wife’s name or nickname that doesn’t connect her to Pushmataha.

10/31/2019 at 4:26 PM

Nana as born about 1780 so you have the wrong Samuel Givens. above. Samuel and Nana was born about 1795. You do not believe my great aunt letter She wrote the letter to someone 1911.. She had no reason to lie in her letter. You are calling my great aunt a liar. She had no reason to lie in the letter. Columbus succession Desoto parish listed a Susan as daughter. She married a Ridgeway and Fortson. Columbus married Nancy Givens in 1834 in Stewart County, Georgia by married .By census records 1830 Putman County, Georgia listed 2 daughters. I Isom Shirling will listed his daughter Mary Shirling marring James Givens. Samuel Givens will saying he had a son name James. So That verify her letter. Prove the documents is wrong. You can not prove those documents wrong. How long you been researching?

10/31/2019 at 5:25 PM

James son of Samuel and Nana was born about and Nana was born about 1795.Are you kin to the Givens and Evans? If not why are you determined to prove us wrong? You haven't done much research on Pushmataha if you knew he had only one son. He fought in the Battle of New Orleans with General Jackson. He was so well respected that he was invited to Washington D. C. to meet the President of France. He got sick and died after a parade He was buried with full honors inn Washington D.C. How much do you know about him? I think you came on just to prove us wrong.

10/31/2019 at 6:02 PM

The Geni Master profile for Pushmataha, Principal Chief of the Choctaw Nation was contributed to by many members and a “clean” Biography listing the known children. No “Nana.”

Doesn’t mean he didn’t have more daughters than we know. But if we don’t know, we don’t.

10/31/2019 at 6:05 PM

I have posted information that is supported by documentation. If there are documents that connect your ancestor to Pushmataha, please post them.

10/31/2019 at 6:30 PM

The letter I had connecting to Pushmataha was destroyed along with everything I had in computer 3 years ago. When you have a fire in your house one loses everything. I am sorry that I don't have a copy of that letter anymore. If I had not put my research on Rootsweb. I would have complexly lost over 20 years of research. I have over 90,000 names on It is something see your house go up in flames. The letter written by Susan Ridgeway Columbus daughter connected her to Puhmataha. She said a Samuel Givens married Nana Pushmataha daughter. I been looking on all of the genealogy sites to see if II could a copy of the letter. She said Samuel Givens was in Mississippi and South Carolina. It might be wrong Samuel Givens. I thought Samuel Givens in York South Carolina until I found the will and tombstone application thAtg verify some of the information in the will. Since she listed every generation back to him and where they lived, She said that James Givens lived in Georgia. I verify all the in

10/31/2019 at 6:49 PM

I put what documents I have on Columbus Evans. showing that Susan Evans was Columbus Daughter. Married records show Columbus marring Nancy Givens in Stewart County, Georgia in 1834 like her letter said. She said that Nancy Givens parents was James Givens and Mary Shirling was her parents. I proved that from a will of Isom Shrilling. I got proof of that from A book name History of Stewart County,Georgia volume 1 and 2 has the information on Columbus Evans, Nancy Givens , James Givens and Mary Shirling. Since James Givens was on 1820 Mecklenburg North Carolina and 1830 Putman County, Georgia. that connect the one in Georgia to the one North Carolina. The census records on James in on James Givens site.

10/31/2019 at 8:13 PM

I uploaded all the Revolutionary War Pension files (about 30 pages) to Samuel Givens' profile as documents.

I hear your frustration, Robert. However, what Kathie is saying is absolutely true--and even the letter you lost is not definitive evidence that Nana was the daughter of Pushmataha. It just doesn't seem logical that a Choctaw woman from Mississippi in the 1790s would somehow marry a Scots-Irish farmer from Mecklenburg County, NC. It would have to have been an extraordinary journey for her to have met him and then leave her people to move a thousand miles away to live with him and raise her children in NC. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would have been extraordinary.

It would have been highly unusual even if she was a native woman from western North Carolina, only a few hundred miles away. Generally, when Native women had children with white men at that time, the men came to them and lived among the tribe, not vice versa.

So that's why we are skeptical--that and the terribly skewed and incorrect dates that were on the original profiles for Nana and her children.

I'm leaving her on the tree, but we need to look for better documentation in public records.

11/1/2019 at 1:51 PM

There are family trees on ancestry and has Samuel Givens marrying Nana. I don't now if we are right wrong we all came up with same information. After 25 years of research I trust no documents. When I started researching the Ritter orginal name was Rutter. There was a Richard Ritter and Richard Rutter born in Maryland was the same. The prollem both end up in Mason County at the same time. They was written up in a book on people last name got change in Kentucky. I spent about researching Rutter family before I was able to get them separated. Turn out one was buried in Kentucky and the other one Illinois. My grandfather Evans death certificate got the wrong mother name. They have as Jones when it was Walker. I found his parent married records in DeSoto , Parish, Louisiana. Offical government records they have his name James Mattison Evans and other James Madison. Evans. Which records is right. One of his daughters tombstone has Evans instead of married name Hough. Her death certificate has Hough on It. My father name got change from John Robert Ritter to Robert John Ritter. 1920 and 1930 census records have John Robert Ritter

Mississippi to North Carolina is not 1000 miles. It is less than 600 miles. The average person can walk 20 to 30 miles in one day, so it would be entirely possible to walk the distance in about one months time (using 20 miles per day as a guideline).

Not all white husbands stayed with the Native wife's family. Case in Point -- Pocahontas. She was taken from her people and ended up in England.

Just sayin'

11/2/2019 at 4:24 PM

And there’s a rule of thumb before the bicycle: courting distance was 5 miles (walk to her home, walk to your home).

Samuel Givens would need to be in a location 5 miles from where an unknown wife was living. When did that happen?

11/3/2019 at 5:22 AM

In the late 1700 people was coming and going from Mississippi. There was no records kept of them. My great great aunt letter she said that Samuel Givens went to Mississippi and South Carolina. In the late 1700 there were no records of people coming and going. I put documents on Susan Evans , Columbus and Nancy Givens connecting them. In the book History of Stewart County Mississippi Volume 1 and 2 James given was the wife of Mary Shirling. I wish her letter had not got destroyed in the fire. We lost several thousand pictures that can not be replaced also. I had relatives in Mississippi I had relatives in Union County, North Carolina that was part Native American at the same on my daddy side. I can prove that they were related to me. I am blood related to lots of people on both my mother side and daddy side.

Showing 1-30 of 39 posts

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