Lifsha Halprin (Shapira) - Lifsha connected to wrong husband, and has 2 sets of parents

Kevin Lawrence Hanit and Private User,

I've been scratching my head over all of this.

In Geni we do have R' Eliezer Lipman Heilprin, A.B.D. Lviv with a son
R' Isaac Halpern, A.B.D. Tykocin however, Gelles says that Israel and Lifsha Helprin 's son Rabbi Shmuel Helman, ABD Metz lived from 1670 to 1764, which seems to put his birth too late to be a son of this particular Israel, whose other children were born between 1625 and 1635 to two different mothers (i.e. not Lifsha's children).

So, I'm stumped for now.

Claudia

Private User,

Can you please tell me which profiles belong where as well as which profile is to get the documents that are attached to R' Israel Charif Halpern, A.B.D. Zaslav.

Thanks,
Kevin

Kevin Lawrence HanitIn order to do this I have created a new profile for Israel Heilprin of Krotoschin (this is where the two documents attached to Israel Charif should be transferred; I already uploaded the PDF tree of Gelles that is the source for this to all the relevant profiles): Israel Heilprin, of Krotoschin I then attached him to his spouse Lifsha: Lifsha Helprin. Their son is Rabbi Shmuel Helman, ABD Metz, whom I attached. The one thing you will need to do is detach this father: Shraga Feiwel Helman since I cannot from my screen (you may want to look into the source of this alternate father because maybe he belongs somewhere nearby on the tree). I merged a few floating, one-person profiles to clean it all up.There is no problem I can see with the chronology: Eliezer bca 1595, Israel bca 1635, and Shmuel bca 1672. Remember, most of these years are estimates and/or approximations.

Private User,

Good work! I confused myself in my last post by mixing up the names Israel and Isaac! In other words, I was looking at the profile for Ezekiel's existing son Isaac, not yet seeing the one for Israel, who was not there yet, i.e. the one that you just added. So, looking at your newly created profile for Israel Heilprin of Krotoschin, I would agree with you that there does not seem to be any problem with chronology in terms of him being a son of Eliezer, and a father of Shmuel.

Kevin Lawrence Hanit, I do think I saw some documentation from Gelles relating to how Shraga Feiwel Helman is related, so I will look for that.

Kevin Lawrence Hanit and Private User,

Below is an excerpt from the footnotes to the 2017 chart from Gelles, discussed previously, which I appears to allude to the R' Shraga Feiwel Helman mentioned above:

An Uri Feivush, claimed by some as Rabbi Helman’s father, may indeed have been his father-in-law. This question is discussed in my books, An Ancient Lineage (2006), chapter 33 and The Jewish Journey (2016), chapter 12. Rabbi Shmuel Helman was the father of Rabbis Uri Feivush and Moshe of Glogau, and one of the latter’s daughters married Moses Gelles, who was the grandson of the scholar Moses Gelles
of the Brody Klaus.This Gelles line goes back to Uri Feivush ben David, Chief Rabbi of Vilna, later Head of the Ashkenazi community in Jerusalem, and descends to my grandfather Rabbi Nahum Uri Gelles. The name of Uri or Uri Feivush thus recurs in both Helman and Gelles lines.

Claudia Bullock Kevin Lawrence HanitBased on the excerpt, I see no reason why not to make Uri Shraga Feivish the father-in-law (with that excerpt attached in the 'About' section).

One question: I was able to attach Israel as a new son to Eliezer, despite the latter being MP-d. Is there a way to prevent any new persons from being attached to a profile, whether it be as spouses, parents, offspring, or siblings, without the approval of the curator?

PS: I would like to see if the lineage described by Gelles from Uri Feivish Ben David (ABD Vilna) to Nahum Uri Gelles is on GENI. Does anyone have a beat?

Private User and Kevin Lawrence Hanit,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe having a profile MP'd simply means that a specific curator has been put in charge of watching over it and curating, and not that it automatically gets completely locked. Adam, if what you are suggesting were to occur, I believe that wouldn't just mean that no new children could be added, it would mean that no one could merge duplicate profiles for any of those existing children without the curator having to specifically intervene. There are a gazillion MP profiles out there, and if they were all locked, it would really be a major problem.

Claudia Bullock - it's my opinion and experience that in lines where confusion occurs, it's best to MP and field and relationship lock. You are correct, this means that you need to have a curator unlock to edit fields and to merge and to add a spouse or child, but it doesn't have to be the specific curator of the MP, it can be any curator, and most of us are quite responsive. Either we see it in our Merge Center OR if you do not get a response in a week or so, start a discussion from the profile or contact a / the curator in Geni email.

Never mind, I found it and made the attachment: Rabbi Meir of Horodicze

Thank you Hatte and Claudia. I suppose we can wait to see if things get fouled up first, before organizing the field and relationship lock. Should we wait? BTW, hello Hatte! I just finished splicing a few profiles you added to the Gelles tree into the tree we've been working on in this thread. I hope you find this unification has merit.

Thank you Private User. I read Gelles' book a long time ago, and have a copy. I share DNA with one or more of his cousins.

Private User - I and a Rubenstein/Reib cousin are part of the Halpern and Branches Project. I'm still not convinced as to how or whether I am actually a descendant, but I do share DNA with a lot of the members. The problem is these rabbinical families intermarried so often, I would think figuring out which ancestor(s) segments were from would be quite tough.

I once tried to use the Halpern and Branches Data and based on my experience I must conclude it is a noble but impossible effort to use atDNA to connect people across more than about 4-5 generations.Trying to take any person and, based on a few cMs, say that they are a descendant of someone who lived in 1550 is a really tall order. Still, the H and B Project has yielded lots of amazing and useful info in other ways, and I am glad it exists. For example, it is thanks to the H and B Project that I learned of the yDNA haplogroup of one of the earliest Heilprins on the GENI tree: Rabbi Zevulun Eliezer Heilprin. Any person who shows this yDNA haplogroup in their pedigree can then look for genealogical ties to that Heilprin tree.

I have signature of reb shmiel he signs as the son of ur shrage feivesh

Private User You'll have to be more precise if you want a reply or an action. Could you please specify? Thanks.

Private User Private User Thanks I see now.