As ROTRUDE died in 810, she could not therefore be Abbess of Faremoutiers circa 840. The abbess would have to be her half-sister ROUDHAID. People are always confusing and combining the two. Although similar, the names are not the same. Charlemagne is known to have had daughtes named Rotrude and Roudhaid as well as Adaltrude and Hiltrude. To add to the confusion they were all spelled various ways. For example Rotrude is sometimes: Hrotrude, Hruotrud, Hrotrudis, Chrotrude. She is, however, NEVER refered to as Roudhaid or Hroudhaid, that is ALWAYS her sister (or someone confusing the two). For those who believe her date of death is mistaken, please know that Einhard states that Rotrude is one of the three children of Charlemagne that died before him. He died in 814.

Rotrude, daughter of Charlemagne & Hildegard

Please see Charlemagne Project for Source Details

Note: A further debate needs to occur about whether this Rotrude was Abbess of Faremoutiers, or whether that was a half sister by Madelgard, a concubine of Charlemagne. Charles Cawley's Medlands & one of the Wikipedia entries below appears to suggest this, but not indisputably. Sharon Doubell

From Medlands

A3.B3 Rotrude (or Hruodrud) (775–6 June 810) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne. CHROTHRUDIS [Rotrud] ([775]-6 Jun 810[105]). "Hruodrudem et Bertham et Gislam" are named daughters of King Charles & Hildegard by Einhard[106]. Angilbert's poem Ad Pippinum Italiæ regum names (in order) "Chrodthrudis…Berta…Gisla et Theodrada" as daughters of King Charles[107]. Theodulf's poem Ad Carolum Rege changes the order slightly when he names "Berta…Chrodtrudh…Gisla …Rothaidh…Hiltrudh, Tetdrada" as daughters of the king[108]. The betrothal of "Hruodrudem…quæ filiarum eius primogenita" with "Constantino, Græcorum imperatore" is recorded by Einhard[109]. Theophanes records that Empress Eirene sent ambassadors to "Carolum Francorum rege" to negotiate the betrothal of "filiæ eius Erythrus" and "filio suo Constantino", dated to 781, in a later passage recording that the empress terminating the treaty "cum Francis" (dated to 787)[110]. The Annales Fuldenses record the betrothal of "Hruodtrudis filia regis" and "Constantino imperator" in 787[111]. She was given the name ERYTHRO in Greek[112]. Her father kept her and her sisters at court refusing them permission to marry[113]. Her relationship with Rorico [I] is proved by the Annales Bertiniani which record the death "867 V Id Ian" of "Hludowicus abbas monasterii et nepos Karoli imperatoris ex filia maiori natu Rohtrude"[114], read together with an earlier part of the same source in which her son Louis is named "Ludowicum abbatem monasterii Sancti Dyonisii cum fratre ipsius Gauzleno"[115]. The Gesta Francorum records the death "810 VIII Id Iun" of "Hruoddrud filia imperatoris quæ natu maior erat"[116]. Einhard records the death "VIII Id Iun 810" of "Hruodtrud filia imperatories"[117]. The necrology of the abbey of Saint-Denis records the death "III Non Jun" of "Rotrudis filia Karoli imperatoris"[118]. Betrothed (781, contract broken 787[119]%29 to Emperor KONSTANTINOS VI, son of Emperor LEON IV & his wife Eirene (14 Jan 771-Prinkipo Island [15 Aug 797/before 806][120], bur Constantinople, Monastery of St Euphrosyne). Mistress: ([800]) of RORICO [I], son of GAUZLIN & his wife Adeltrudis --- (-after 1 Mar 839 [840], bur Abbaye de Saint-Maur de Glanfeuil, Anjou). He lived at the court of Charlemagne. Comte de Rennes 819. Comte du Maine [832]. :[http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAROLINGIANS.htm#_Toc240955192]

A3.B3.C1 Louis ([800]-9 Jan 867). Abbot of Saint-Denis Oct 840. Arch-Chancellor (Protonotar) of Charles II “le Chauve” King of the Franks from 840 until his death[58]. His parentage is confirmed by the Annales Bertiniani which record that "Ludowicum abbatem monasterii Sancti Dyonisii cum fratre ipsius Gauzleno" captured a Viking force in 858[59]. The Annales Bertiniani record the death "867 V Id Ian" of "Hludowicus abbas monasterii et nepos Karoli imperatoris ex filia maiori natu Rohtrude"[60].http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/MAINE.htm#_Toc480124608

vs

[King Charles had Rothildis by] Mistress (3): [MADELGARD] ---. Settipani names Madelgardis as the mistress of King Charles, and mother of Rothildis abbess of Faremoutiers[86]. However, he cites no primary source on which this is based, apart from a reference to an early 9th century list of nuns at Faremoutiers which includes the name. No reference has been found to her in any of the sources so far consulted. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAROLINGIANS.htm#_Toc240955192] Mistress (2):Einhard refers to "Ruodhaidem" as the daughter of King Charles and an unnamed concubine[85]. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAROLINGIANS.htm#_Toc240955192]

From Wikipaedia

3. His second wife was Hildegard (757 or 758–783), married 771, died 783. By her he had nine children: - Charles the Younger (ca. 772–4 December 811), Duke of Maine, and crowned King of the Franks on 25 December 800 - Carloman, renamed Pippin (April 777–8 July 810), King of Italy - Adalhaid (774), who was born whilst her parents were on campaign in Italy. She was sent back to Francia, but died before reaching Lyons - Rotrude (or Hruodrud) (775–6 June 810) - Louis (778–20 June 840), twin of Lothair, King of Aquitaine since 781, crowned Holy Roman Emperor in 813, senior Emperor from 814 - Lothair (778–6 February 779/780), twin of Louis, he died in infancy[37] - Bertha (779-826) - Gisela (781-808) - Hildegarde (782-783)

7. His second known concubine was Madelgard. By her he had: - Ruodhaid (775–810), abbess of Faremoutiers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne

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Abbess of Faremoutiers Abbey (French: Notre-Dame de Faremoutiers) was founded circa 620 by Burgundofara (Saint Fara). It formed an important link between the Merovingian Frankish Empire and the southern Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of Kent and East Anglia.

The abbey was a dual monastery, that is it had separate accommodations for monks and nuns. It was established following the strict Rule of Saint Columbanus. Originally named Evoriacum, it was renamed in Burgundofara's honour.

The modern village of Faremoutiers grew up around the abbey which was endowed with lands by Saint Fara.

From the Wikipedia page of Rotrude:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotrude

Rotrude (or sometimes referred to as Hruodrud) (775 - June 6, 810) was the second daughter of Charlemagne from his marriage to Hildegard.

Early life

Few clear records remain of Princess Rotrude's early life. She was educated in the Palace School by Alcuin, who affectionately calls her Columba in his letters to her.[1]

When she was six, her father betrothed her to Constantine VI of Byzantium, whose mother Irene was ruling as regent. The Greeks called her Erythro and sent a scholar monk called Elisaeus to educate her in Greek language and manners.[2]

However, the alliance fell apart by 786 when she was eleven and Constantine's mother, Irene, broke off the engagement in 788.

She then became the mistress of Rorgo of Rennes and had one son with him, Louis, Abbot of Saint-Denis (800–9 January 867). She never married.

Later life

Rotrude eventually became a nun, joining her aunt Gisela, abbess of Chelles. The two women authored a letter to Alcuin of York, who was at Tours at the time, requesting that he write a commentary explaining the Gospel of John.[3] As a result, Alcuin eventually produced his seven-book Commentaria in Johannem Evangelistam, a more accessible companion to the gospel than St. Augustine's massive and challenging Tractates on St. John. Commentators have dated the letter to the spring of 800, four years before Alcuin's death and ten before Rotrude's. [4]

In contemporary views of history, most scholars discriminate between the two phases of Rotrude's life. Political histories of Charlemagne her father discuss her as a princess who was potentially a pawn and a woman of questionable morals [5], while religious histories discuss her as the second nun in the letter from Chelles.

References

1.^ Gaskoin, C. J. B. Alcuin: His Life and His Work. New York: Russell & Russell, 1966

2.^ Runciman, Steven. "The Empress Irene the Athenian." Medieval Women. Ed. Derek Baker. Oxford: Ecclesiastical History Society, 1978.

3.^ "Epistola Christi Familarum Gislae atque Rechtrudae ad Albinum Magistrum." Patrologia Latina 100:738D-740C.

4.^ Ed. Dümmler, Monumenta Germanicae Historica: Epistolae aevi Carolini II, pp 323-325

5.^ rotrud_tochter_karls_des_grossen_+_810

6.^ Commentaria

Daughter of Charlemagne's Concubine, Madelgard; Abbess of Faremoutiers

By Madelgard Charlemagne had:

5.1 Ruodhaid (775–810), Abbess of Faremoutiers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne] ROTHILDIS [Rouhaut] ([784]-24 Mar 852). Abbess at Faremoutiers from before Oct 840[157]. Her parentage is proved by the necrology of the abbey of Saint-Germain-des-Prés which records the death "XI Kal Apr" of "Rothildis abbatisse et monache filia regis magni Karoli"[158]. The necrology of the abbey of Saint-Denis records the death "XI Kal Mar" of "Rotildis abbatissa"[159]. and: CHROTHAIS [Rota%C3%AFde] ([784]-after 800, maybe after 814). "Ruodhaidem" is named daughter of King Charles and an unnamed concubine by Einhard[155]. Theodulf's poem Ad Carolum Rege names (in order) "Berta…Chrodtrudh…Gisla…Rothaidh…Hiltrudh, Tetdrada" as daughters of the king[156]. [http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAROLINGIANS.htm#_Toc240955192]

Note: Wikipedia seems possibly to conflate what Charles Cawley sees as 2 mistresses and their respective daughters Ruodhaid / Chrothias / Rotaide / Ruodhaidem / Rothildis / Rouhaut, in a manner that seems worth considering. Although Cawley designates an unknown Mistress 2 before Madelgard - who he sees as Mistress 3, he lists the daughters of both mistresses as being born in 784. Despite this, he specifies that Madelgard’s daughter was Abess of Faremoutiers, - although Wikipedia sees her as being born in 775. The Wikipedia sources for this date weren’t apparent, but Cawley’s use of Theodulf's poem Ad Carolum Rege naming the daughters (supposedly in order) provides another form of data: "Berta…Chrodtrudh…Gisla…Rothaidh…Hiltrudh, Tetdrada" [156] As both Wikipedia & Cawley agree that Gisela was born 781, Hiltrude in 787 & Theodrata 785 (so much for correct order), this places one Rothaide - between 781 & 787, so I am deferring to Cawley on the date, but going with Wikipedia in conflating the women whose children he has born in the same year, with names that are sufficiently similar as to be synonymous.

Compare:

Cawley: NN Mistress 2's daughter: 784. Ruodhaidem CHROTHAIS [Rota%C3%AFde].

Cawley: Madelgard - Mistress 3's daughter: 784. ROTHILDIS [Rouhaut]. Abbess.

Wikipedia: Madelgard's daughter:775.Ruodhaid. Abbess.

Mistress (3): [MADELGARD] ---. Settipani names Madelgardis as the mistress of King Charles, and mother of Rothildis abbess of Faremoutiers[86]. However, he cites no primary source on which this is based, apart from a reference to an early 9th century list of nuns at Faremoutiers which includes the name. No reference has been found to her in any of the sources so far consulted. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAROLINGIANS.htm#_Toc240955192]

Mistress (2):Einhard refers to "Ruodhaidem" as the daughter of King Charles and an unnamed concubine[85]. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAROLINGIANS.htm#_Toc240955192]

Alt bith date: 775; Alt death date from merges: 852

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotrude

http://www.our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/ui05.h...