Lijsbeth (Sanders) Herbst, SM - Parents?

http://www.e-family.co.za/ffy/g6/p6130.htm

Confirmation is necessary for her parents. I don't know whether this information is a theory or based on some hard evidence.

Delia's authority on this matter was M. Upham ...

Lijsbeth Arabus and her sister Cornelia were captured by French amiral P.N. de la ROCHE ST. ANDRE in Bay of Aden from Arabian boat on route to SOCOTRA island center of slavemarket in 1656 near OMAN. They were 12 and 10. The Amiral gave them as a present to Maria de la quellerie wife of Jan Van Riebeek. Later they were given to the firstfree burgers.. Lijsbet joined Wouter Mostert farm.. Cornelia Hendrick BOOM and wife ANNA. Lijsbeth SANDERS her daughter was born in 1659 she had a child with William TURLING and married JOHAN HERBST who gave his name to the child : CLARA HERBST. I descend in direct maternal line from Lijsbeth Arabus MTDNA L3b which is ethiopian.

concerning the AMIRAL I found it on Wikipédia you can check it

more history ; the NEGUS of Abyssinia/Ethiopia is FAZILIDAS b;1603 at MUGAR in SHAWA district dies 18 OCT 1667. His dynasty is the SALOMONIDE " ALAH SAGAD" is the name of his reign.
He wars against the OTTOMANS in GONDAR north of Lake TANA.
Lijsbeth was dus born under his reign around 1645.

Babra,
I agree but according tom the Dna of my wife, who is a 8th great grand daughter of her in the matrilineal line the Dna should be L3b3. I don't know if the extra 3 have any special meaning.
According to the spreading of the Dna s out of Africa the biggest concentration of L3b3 Dna were North of the red sea and also in Ethopia ,Abyssinia and a more northern part that was of old called Kusch That seemed to be an unstable area at that time and it could be that two princesses were captured during one or other war between different sections and sold as slaves.
The other' line' of thinking is that they originated from Madagascar whos Dn
L3 grouping originated from Borneo. I will try to post the link to it after this input. Madagascar at that stage had a stable Monarchy and it is unlikely that they would have sold Royal children into slavery.
The First Fifty Years mentioned their place of origin as Madagascar, Ethiopia and some more places in that area so I believe cant go on that because it seemed that persons who wrote the different references,, who made part of the study, wasn't sure from where they were.

I will try to put the reference link to Borneo in the next reply.

Wow, this is interesting.

Dries?

Hi Sharon, Sorry our Namibian lines stopped

working. I received a notice from Geni that you tagged me in the discussion "lisjbeth (Sanders) SM- Parents. I cant find such a discussion
I am family to her via her daughter "Lisjbeth Herbst " My wife's mtDna line
goes through another daughter. So she is one grand mother nearer family. Now if we take my son, who has the same mtDna as his mother, should then be equal to me in position to the list of Grandparents. .
You'd call that "a rather nice trianqulated confirmation.

Private User alerted me that he'd found another L3b3 descendant of Lijsbeth Herbst:

• Lijsbeth Sandersz van de Kaap
• Maria Louisz
• Catharina Hoffman
• Catharina Huppenaar
• Sarah Nel
• Gezina "Geesje" Aletta de Lange (Nel)
• Susanna Catharina Johanna Bezuidenhout (De Lange)
• Elizabeth Johanna Bezuidenhout
• Elizabeth Johanna Olivier Lubbe
• Jacomina Maria van der Berg
• Maria (Marie) Hermina Strydom (van der Berg)
• Aubrey Strydom

This is Barbara's line:
• Lijsbeth Sandersz van de Kaap
• Clara Herfst
• Isabella Potgieter
• Cecilia Johanna du Preez
• Susanna Maria Botha
• Susanna Maria Nel
• Maria Cornelia Nel
• Susanna Maria Greeff
• Margaretha Dean Durandt
• patricia dean-cailliau
• Barbara Nicole Cailliau

So, Aubrey's mtDNA result provides confirmation of Barbara & Jacoba's for Lijsbeth Sandersz van de Kaap as being L3b3

Jacoba's mtDNA provides confirmation of Barbara's for Isabella Potgieter as being L3b3

Pretty good, I'd say. Although - we still haven't confirmed Lijsbeth Herbst as Lijsbeth Arabus's daughter.

Petrus Philippus Potgieter, b1c8d1e5f9g6h4i9J3, I see that the mtDNA test result extrapolated to Jacoba Johanna Alettha Botha - was actually yours. Thanks so much for sharing it - it really helps us.
I've invited you to collaborate on the various projects too.

Thanks Sharon.
My wife's line. There is some mishap there.

Beatrix Magdalena Rademan b1c3d6e7f9, is duplicated. Maybe it is just a typing error.

Look at Isabella Potgieter b1c3 as well

Hi All.
I have copied the text further below from my reply this morning to Sharon & Jan.
Regarding an earlier question - I got the results of L3b from "23&me" and L3b3 from "Family Tree DNA" - so they are either using slightly different terminology - which they do on the Y tests - but as well I think the FTDNA is a deeper analysis.

Hello Sharon and Jan.
It is exciting stuff.
I created this line from me up to Daniel Bezuidenhout a couple of years ago after some detailed oral family history from my two van der Berg Tannies: Bettie (married van Staden) and Anna (married Pretorius).

However I was not able to quickly find any records to prove it, and did find a link to the Bezuidenhout family via the Olivier line, so I assumed the oral history dubious and broke the link and left Johanna van Rooyen as the maternal L3b3 ancestor to be resolved later.
Your finding the L3b3 DNA links further up the line does lend strong weight to the oral history, and I am happy to leave that connection tentatively, but would still like to verify it with the paper trail, and will make notes in there about it.

It is possible the birth records were lost when the British burnt the Frankfort Church, but they may still be lodged somewhere else - do you any advice on someone whom I could find to contract for researching this? I sadly don't have much spare time for it.
Aub

p.s. In my profiles where the females' Surnames names have been changed by others away from the South African convention of maintaining the maiden name I will change them back.

Sorry Dries - those are just typos - I had to draw all three lines by hand as Geni was showing the lines through the sons - I got a client phone call while I was drawing yours and obviously lost the plot a bit - I'll redraw it when I go up to my computer :-)

Aubrey - we are really indebted to you for sharing your mtDNA result - it's worth it's weight in gold to have a corroborated line. It is great to have documents confirming oral history - but a first hand account from a recent descendant is definitely a source too. My granny said ... in the About works for me.
Yes, in the interests of correct historical documentation - if they had married names people shouldn't be deleting them.

I have also tested L3b

My line

Lijsbeth Arabus
Lijsbeth Sanders
Maria Louisz
Catharina Hoffman
Catherina Huppenaar
Magdalena Gous
Catharina Gouws
Johanna Petronella Hattingh
Catherina Elizabeth Erasmus
Lourensa Johanna Petronella van der Merwe
Lena Jacobs
Veronica Herrman McGee

Dries - check this line now:
• Lijsbeth Sandersz van de Kaap
• Clara Herfst
• Isabella Potgieter
• Maria Martha du Preez
• Barbara Wilhelmina Steyn
• Beatrix Magdalena Steyn
• Beatrix Magdalena Rademan
• Jacoba Johanna van Eeden
• Jacoba Johanna Aletta Martins
• Elizabeth Jacoba Margaretha Martins
• Jacoba Johanna Alettha Britz
• Private

Thankyou Veronica :-)
Is this correct? If so, then you confirm Aubrey's line at Catherina Huppenaar as being L3b3: although your mtDNa result is propagated by geni from his. I'm assuming, as you are only 6th cousins, that you built your trees independently of each other?

• Lijsbeth Sandersz van de Kaap
• Maria Louisz
• Catharina Hoffman
• Catharina Huppenaar
• Magdalena Gouws
• Sarah Nel
• Catharina Susara Hattingh
• Johanna Petronella Erasmus
• Catherina Elizabeth Erasmus
• Lourensa van der Merwe
• Lena Herrmann
• Veronica Herrmann McGee

Sharon, Veronica and I have not collaborated and are meeting for the first time now.
Veronica, your L3b suggests not FTDNA? It would be very interesting if you were to propagate your test result directly into Geni to see how it handles or merges the nomenclature of the different companies.
There are links to use on the DNA tab below your profile.

Though here Veronica:
https://www.geni.com/dna-tests/upload_autosomal

Thanks Sharon, My line seems to be correct.