Unsourced Profiles I Can't Validate

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Saturday, October 26, 2019
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200-1AD: early Torah (Law) Sages: Antigonus of Sochoh, Jose ben Johanan of Jeru- salem, Jose ben Joezer of Zereda in Samaria, Joshua ben Perahiah & Nittai of Arbel in Galilee, Simeon ben Shetah, Judah ben Tabbai, Shemiah, Abtalion

I have seen several people comment in this thread and others, that there is no legitimate connection of Europeans to ancient hebrews, and that it is POLICY to cut these lines when you see them. Wow... The descendants of Mariamne I, the hasmonean princess who married Herod the Great had two sons. Alexander and Aristobulus. They married into many prestigious families of the Ptolemaic dynasty, Emesan dynasty and others in ancient Anatolia. These families then married into lines of Romans and Byzantine royalty. And those families in turn married into the royal families of the French, Normans/Scots and others. If there is no "guardian of the Bible Tree" then why would anyone think they have a right to destroy the well established lineages of my ancestors and think that it's okay. Sounds very biased to me...and if this is the policy of this site - to just decide that people aren't related to anyone in the ancient world, then I'm not sure why they formed the company in the first place, nor why any of us are even interested in geneology in the first place.

pyramids on Greenland? LMAO

[Elisha wrote me a private message discussing this topic. Considering there's nothing private about it, I'll post my response here as well, with minor changes]

Hello Elisha,
The made-up genealogies weren't about ruling. I said that these kings, every last one of them (dozens), not only the ones that survived until later times, wanted to feel important about themselves.

When talking about these ancient genealogies we have to divide them into three rough periods.

1. Ancient nobility around the time of Jesus, ancient Greece and Rome. Until around the year 700. Yes THESE genealogies are **somewhat** documented, rarely going much further back.

2. "Modern" nobility from around the 15th century until present time. The genealogies of these royalty is **relatively** well documented going forward.

3. Genealogies BETWEEN these two periods. Roughly 1000 years, throughout the medieval period. THESE are the genealogies that I'm talking about. None of them have any sources older than the time they appeared, full blown.

The "length" of a single generation is the time between when someone is born, and his age when HIS children are born. On average this is around twenty five years, right? In many periods it was even shorter. The genealogies of these royalty usually have 40-50 generations over a period of two thousand years (2000!). This gives an average generation of 40-50 years. So the simplest way to show how these lines are fake is that they are all too SHORT! They are missing 20-30 GENERATIONS. I'm sure there WERE specific generations that where 40-50 years apart. But those where very rare exceptions.

THANK YOU, Shmuel.

Mariamne I is my 69th grandmother. The average generation is around 30 years. 30 x 69 is 2070 years, and since she lived in the last century of the millenium before Christ - that seems to fit quite perfectly with the timeline. No missing generations. Maria Komnene, Queen of Jerusalem (daughter of byzantine royalty Manuel) married into the House of Anjou in the 11th century AD. Eudokia Komnene married William of Montpellier. These are just two examples of how royalty from the East, with connections to Ancient Judea, intermarried with royalty from the West. There are others. I just don't think it's right for curators to hold such a strong bias, and then use that opinion to sever genoleological trees at their whim. I'm just glad that I have all of these lineages already well preserved for myself and my family, because this site is becoming more unreliable by the day. I didn't want to upset anyone - I was just trying to provide the information in case someone really didn't know about these marriages or others. Most people dismiss European royalty claims as some kind of Mary Magdala conspiracy - and that simply isn't the case. I just thought you guys might want to know that there are legitimate connections.

Alexander III's marriage to Glaphyra, produced rulers of Judea (Gaius Julius Alexander) and Tigranes V of Armenia. In addition, Aristobulus married into the Emesan dynasty, who were linked with the last of the Ptolemaic dynasty, and would enter into the lineages of Syrian romans, whose descendants moved to Europe and became members of prominant Roman and Byzantine families.

Just for clarification, Alexander III and Aristobulus were the sons of Mariamne I and Herod.

Elisha Kayne
Totalmente de acuerdo.

Elisha Kayne,
There is absolutely NO-WAY that the AVERAGE generation could be that long. These people, even well to-do nobility, got married very young (late teens), gave birth ASAP and were DEAD by the time they were FIFTY.

Here's a fascinating study from Cambridge, on the topic. You can be sure that the averages were lower before 800.

Lifespans of the European Elite, 800–1800.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. However, the people in my tree during that time period are well known royals.

Elizabeth Margaret Doane
her mother → John Pike
her father → Jean Pike
his mother → Margaret Sutherland
her mother → Katherine Campbell
her mother → Sir Robert Campbell, 9th Laird, 3rd Baronet of Glenorchy
her father → Sir Duncan Campbell of Glenorchy, 1st Baronet
his father → Colin Campbell, 6th of Glenorchy and Arkinglass
his father → Marjory Stewart
his mother → Sir John Stewart, 1st Earl of Atholl
her father → Joan Beaufort, Queen of Scots
his mother → John Beaufort, 1st Earl of Somerset
her father → John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster
his father → Edward III, king of England
his father → Isabella of France, Queen consort of England
his mother → Philippe IV le Bel, roi de France
her father → Isabel Capet, queen consort of France
his mother → James I the Conqueror, King of Aragon
her father → María de Montpellier, reina de Aragón
his mother → Eudokia Komnene
her mother

All of these individuals from the early 12th century to the early 19th century are well accounted for historically.

Even after the Stuart/Stewart line, Clan Campbell has a well recorded history. And, the Pike and Doane families were well known early settlers in America. They were Quakers who helped established counties in New Jersey, Pennsylvania and North Carolina.

I would be able to further towards the 800's, where the line goes towards the East. Into the Byzantine Komnene family, and the Armenians, but these are the two lines that have recently been disconnected from my geneology.

What has happened to be Byzantine Komnene? It has been all wipped out from my tree line (and supposedly for everyone)... Moses of Chorene were wrong? It has been proved? Because this line was delineated in the 5 century ACE (according the sources)

Thank you for the reference Marco Tulio Santos Oliveira I found some sources because of your comment and I will be reading them this week. Do you happen to have any information on Ripsimia's relationship to Ashot II of Armenia or other historical books on Armenian history? This relationship has been deemed controversial as well, and there is very little information available online that is in English. If you have more sources available for either profile I would appreciate it. You can send it here or send me a private message.

Elisha Kayne I don´t have any article nor reading about Ripsimia´s relationship to Ashot II (note the way of those names are typed in Armenian could be different, as for example, Ripsimia could be read as well as Hripsime... I´m not expert in Armenian History, but this I found out like as many other ancient names that could have several ways to write)





as soon as I find some articles about the Byzantine Komnene I´ll post here.

Hope this could help you

[https://books.google.com.br/books?id=dG-gAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA201&...] If one could read cirilic alphabet or know slavic languages could exam this book, it contains information about Nikola Kometopuli, married with Hripsime (problably Ashot´s II daughter)

Relación de sangre más corta
Ripsimia es tu 33ª bisabuela.
Juan Carlos
→ Juan Iges Blom→ Carmen Cristina Madsen→ Ana Hilda Mathiasen→ Lars Mathiasen→ Mathias Larsen→ Sophie Margrete Mathias salpica a→ Karen Jensdatter→ Kirstine Margrete Christiansdatter→ Christian Jeppesen Bruun→ Karen Nielsdatter Bruun → Niels Frandsen Bruun → Johanne Andersdatter Grøn → Anders Eriksen Green, a Tamdrup Bisgaard → Erik Jensen Green, a Voergaard→ Maren Andersdatter Bjørn, por Voergaard→ Anders Jacobsen Bjørn→ Margrethe Andersdatter Hvide→ Else Holgersdatter Krognos→ Holger Gregersen Krognos, a Vidskøfle y Heireholm→ Gregers Pedersen Krognos, a Vidskøfle → Regitze Christoffersdatter Løvenbalk→ Cristóbal II, rey de Dinamarca,→ Reina Agnes, de Brandenburg→ Margrave Johann von Brandenburg→ Mathilde von der Nieder-Lausitz, de la casa de Wettin→ Elżbieta Mieszkówna→ Elisabeth, princesa de Hungría→ Jelena Urosevic, Reina Consorte de Hungría,→ Anna Diogenissa→ Constantine Diogenes → Anna de Bulgaria → Alusian de Bulgaria→ Ivan Vladislav, zar de Bulgaria→ Aron Komitopulos→ Ripsimia

This book, "Armenians in Bulgaria, Culture and Identity" by Evgenija G. Miceva (2001) does mention Hripsime (хрипсиме) by name. However, the book is hard to find and all I can get from it is a snippet.


Private User Pity.. I´ll keep my researches in the next days, lot of work to do... maybe a solution to this is talk directly to hers and find out if she could spare a copy for us or share some light on this question.

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