Capt. Vinet Fine

• DAR Ancestor #: A040420

Vinet Fine was born about 1750 in New Jersey and was killed by Indians in the winter of 1783/1784 at Fines Creek in Cowee, Haywood County, North Carolina while fighting Indians. [fn3]. Served in the Rev. War. A memorial stone is in the Newberry Cemetery in Crawford Co., Arkansas.

Parents: said to be the oldest son of Thomas Fine (b. Abt 1728, New Jersey) and Agnes Merchant (b. Abt 1730, New Jersey) [1]

Married

1. abt 1772 in Virginia to Effa McElwain. Effa, a daughter of George Thomas Jr. and Nancy (Rector) McElwain, was born about 1754 in Missouri. Later, Effa married Reuben Redaford. Effa reportedly had three children with Reuben Redaford, but nothing is known of them. Effie took her children, all except Thomas who was old enough to live on his own, and moved back to Missouri, where she had been born. There she died three years later, 1786. [2]

Children of Effa McElwain and Vinett Fine:

1. Emma Fine was born about 1774 and married Mr. Gray
2. Abraham Fine was born about 1775 and died Jul 5 1863. He married Elizabeth Henry on Jun 1806
3. Sarah "Sally" Fine was born about 1777. She married Abraham Job, son of David and Lezaneah Job
4. Phoebe Fine was born about 1779. She married Joseph Cunningham.
5. Charles Fine was born about 1780.
6. William Fine was born about 1781 and died on 9 September 1865. He married Catherine Sively Apr 2 1807
7. Isaac Fine was born in February 1783. He married Anne Poe first and Mary Wilson second.

Fine Family

At this point, some history on the Fine family is necessary to understand how Fines Creek received its name. Thomas Fine was born about 1725, probably in New Jersey. He died after 1794 in Virginia. He married Agnes Merchant, who was born about 1730 in New Jersey; she died after 1794. They had nine children: Vinette 1750-1783, Phillip 1751-1825, Peter 1753-1826, John 1755-1829, Weden "Wenden" 1757-1787, Euphremeas 1759-1785/95, Elizabeth 1761, Jacob 1763, David 1764-1845. This information was taken from the Thomas Fine descendant's book sent to Lucy Ferguson by Creighton and Lois Fine Depew of Seattle, Washington in December of 1999. [1]

How Fine's Creek Got It's Name

Vinett was listed Dunmore County Militia in 1775 and in the 8th Virginia Regiment with Rev. Muhlenberg. "German Regiment." In July 1781, he was in a party attacking a party of Indians with Col. John Sevier. The 1783 Shenandoah County VA census showed Vineott as head of family, with 6 in family.

In April 1783, he was with a force who crossed the mountain to the Overhill Town (Cherokee Indian) of Cowee and burned it. All Indian aggressions upon the Pigeon and French Broad River settlements had come from this town. The force was commanded by Col. William Lillard and Major Peter Fine.

In the Winter of 1783, Indians began to steal horses and cattle from the Big Pigeon settlements in Cocke County TN. Major Peter Fine and Captain John McNabb raised a company of men and followed the Indians across the mountains into North Carolina, where they killed one Indian and wounded another, but recovered the stolen horses. The Indians fired upon them, killing Vinett Fine, and wounding Thomas Holland, and a man named of Bingham. Because there was no time for grave-digging and apparently no safety in trying to escape with the body, the ice in the creek was broken and the body placed there. Before the men could return for it, the creek became flooded by a sudden change in temperature, and the body was washed away and was never recovered. To this day, the creek is known as Fine's Creek. Fine's Branch, in 1998, is in Cocke County, TN. [1]

Comments

https://www.themountaineer.com/news/haywood_history/fines-creek-leg... “ Fines Creek legend leaves us wondering” By Kathy N. Ross Jan 5, 2020

The story, first published in W.C. Allen’s Centennial History of Haywood County, goes like this: In the late 1700s, during a bitter winter, some Cherokee took horses from what is now Cocke County, Tennessee, and headed east into the Smoky Mountains.

Several men pursued the Cherokee until the two groups skirmished at what was then called Crystal Creek. The pursuers recovered the horses and camped for the night. That evening or in the early morning, the Cherokee returned and attacked, killing one man by the last name of Fine.

“His comrades knew not what to do with the remains of their friend,” Allen wrote. “They were away from home, they had no tools to dig a grave to bury him in, and they were afraid to leave the body lest it be devoured by the hungry wolves.

“The body was taken by his friends and placed in the creek under the ice for safe keeping until they could go home and return. When they returned, they could not find the corpse anywhere, and they supposed the hungry wolves found it and fed upon it. From that time to the present the creek was known as Fines Creek.”

W. Clark Medford also tells the story of Fines Creek in his Haywood County history books. The story is repeated on genealogical web sites, including www.geni.com. Their account states that Vinet and Peter Fine had settled in what is now Cocke County, and both were in the party that came into North Carolina after the stolen horses.

Census and genealogical records show that Peter Fine died in 1826, confirming that Vinet was the one killed in the skirmish. All accounts date Vinet’s death at 1783, when he was 27.

I have lived in Haywood County for more than 30 years, repeated this story many times. It took three decades for me to wonder: The Tennesse men had their horses. Why didn’t they pack the body on a horse? How much could one body, borne on horseback, slow down the posse?

DNA

• from http://www.myheritage.com/dna-surname-project/Fine

The primary focus of this project is those members in Group 1. Those members all match and descend from Fines in early NJ,MD,VA and NC. As of 3-4-10, there are 9 members in Group 1. 1 descends from Peter Fine known to have lived in NJ before 1750 and moved to MD in the 1760s. 1 descends from Philip Fine born in Warren County, NJ in 1814.3 descend from NC Fines (Johann Fine in 1760s). 4 descend from Thomas Fine of VA (born in NJ abt 1725.)

There is a shared mutation in 3 descendants of Thomas Fine. They all descend from Thomas' son, Vinett.

Results

Results to date (3-4-10) prove that all Fines in Group 1 share a common ancestor and the ancestry is German. The common ancestor is by YDNA supported by research documents. German ancestry is by research documentation and is supported by YDNA Haplogroup.

Speculation

The Fine family is one of the very oldest in Cocke county. In fact they were here long before the county.

The late Lady Ruth O'Dell, in her monumental history " Over the Misty Blue Hills," has given a lengthy account of the "tribe", so what I shall say here will merely supplement her excellent work.

The Fines were, there is some reason to believe, French. The first mention of the name I have been able to find was that of Orontas Fine, a French mathematician and geographer, who accomplished the amazing feat of making Mathematics a popular fad at the gay royal court of Louis I of France (1494--1547). [1]

Proven?

The Fine family were Holland Dutch. However, the name came from the word “fen, the name for low marshy lands, and is sometimes spelled “Fenn” or “Finn.” These Fines were a part of a settlement in 1700 of Johannis Fine, who bought land at Hempstead, Long Island. Before the Revolutionary War, the Fine family was located in Shenandoah County near the Newman, Denton and Thomas families from Long Island, on thewaters of the Shenandoah River near New Market. (Odell)

The belief that Phillip Peter FINE is the father of Thomas FINE (Agnes MERCHANT), as far as I know, came from "Over The Misty Blue Hills" by Ruth O'Dell. She says that Thomas FINE was the father of Peter, Vinet, etc.....and that their grandfather was Phillip Peter FINE. Remember that: in the original printing, it says that both Phillip Peter and Thomas were the fathers...on separate pages. However, Ruth O'Dell then wrote an addendum to the book that said that there was an editing error; that Thomas FINE was father to Vinet, et. al, and Phillip Peter was the grandfather.

Links

1. The History of Fine's Creek by Lucy Ferguson © 2008 Fines Creek Community Association retrieved 28 June 2011
2. Ausbourne Family Tree
3. Fine: rootsweb discussion last updated 2002
4. http://www.lovecompany.org/pdfs/fine.pdf

Footnotes

1. Vinott (Vinet) Fine is our known ancestor. The “i” in Vinet is pronounced as in “mine.” By 1780-1781 five Fine brothers--Peter, John, Vinott, Wenden, and Euphemeas had removed from theShenandoah Valley to Newport, Cocke County, Tennessee. The father of these five men has not beenverified. Researchers state that the father was Philip Peter Fine of Maryland who served in the VirginiaArmy during the Revolutionary War. Efforts to obtain military records of Philip Peter Fine, Vinott Fineand Thomas Fine Sr. have been unsuccessful, The positive link between Joannis and Vinett has not been found by the writer. (E.G. Fine - 1971)
2. Vinet’s will wasn’t settled until Feb of 1790. Local Tennessee folklore says that the Fine and Andres families settled in Cherokee Creek, Washington,Tennessee around 1791, which is just southeast of modern Nashville. Many of the Fines were traders, and the county and state boundaries are not what they used to be. It is likely, like the Indians, these traders considered a vast amount of territory their property. It is however known, that most of the Fine family at this time were Baptists. (Fine Huber)
3. Vinet and Peter and some other unrelated guys had just gone from North Carolina across the mountains into Tennessee to kick some Cherokee butt; Vinet was killed as they were running back across to North Carolina. This was a fairly longstanding argument about cattle raiding and whatnot; raiding was going on on both sides. - Megan Zurawicz

Sources

1. VINETT FINE AND HIS DESCENDANTS by Emerette Goff Fine, 1971 (attached)
2. Court records of Franklin and Rockingham Counties, Virginia, Letter From Jacob Wayne, Son of Tunis and Catherine (Propst) McElwain., (2) Letter from Jacob Wayne to the McElwain family written c1892., o Letter from Jacob Wayne to the McElwain family in Webster County, West Virginia, written c1892
3. [freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~finehueber/finehistory17811886.doc Fine Hueber - Fine History] (attached as PDF file)
4. [www.lovecompany.org/pdfs/Misty.pdf O'Dell, Ruth W. Over the Misty Blue Hills: The Story of Cocke County, Tennessee. Easley, S.C: Southern Historical Press, 1982. Print. New Material Copyright 1982] (attached as PDF file)

Notes

1. Fines in the new era: 150 years of social mobility Master's Thesis by Larrabee, Linda Kaye 2005-07-06

Abstract In 1783, two brothers moved their young, growing families into the wilderness of North Carolina. Patriarchal tragedy occurred when Vinet Fine was killed in a skirmish with Native Americans; the other brother, Peter Fine, survived to rear his family. This piece follows the male descendants of both Vinet and Peter Fine for 150 years, encompassing six generations and including the portion of the seventh generation who were born before 1915. Data is gathered from U. S. Federal Census Records from 1850 to 1930 and from early family history records. Social mobility for both lines of descendants is measured and compared. Assuming equal life chances for the two original brothers before the misfortune that befell Vinet, the expected outcome is that, in comparison to Peters descendants, many generations of Vinet's male offspring suffered lessened upward social mobility due to the original loss of the patriarch of their family. The research is discussed with regard to life course and social mobility theories.