. . . a single, collaborative world family tree . . .

Let's see if I have this straight:

1) Judy wants a help platform to assist the novice Geni user.

2) Erica posts a link to Geni's help platform, which includes a searchable knowledge base, video tutorials, help forums and a place to submit support requests.

3) Judy replies that she refuses to use the help platform because she's not a "paid geni [sic] employee."

4) Judy says (again) that she wants Geni to create a help platform.

After that I stopped reading, for my brain had exploded. :-/

Private User
July replies.....
Judy replies
I completely agree with that comment.
Here we were all fooled
Curators between employees, Geo and Administrators
With the famous idea of ​​the world tree, and the economic crash suffered by the First World, there must be glued Geni also, hence the continuous variations and requirements for membership as appropriate the profiles to form his famous dream.
I remind you all of the FFCC laws and those of consumer protection, careful what you do with profiles that are not owned by Geni. Lawyers will be plenty of unemployed Sharks will be eager to fall into a great trial and global Courts

Geoffrey,

You've completely twisted my words and missed my point. Nice. Don't worry. I won't bother posting anymore.

Judy it's fine to ask for Geni staff help and they do - voluntarily, and on their own time - monitor public discussions.

You can "tag" Mike Stangel for an issue by typing [[ 54 ]] and removing the spaces between double brackets and the PID code. And yes, he really was the 54th Profile ID.

If however it's a FAQ or Customer Service issue I think it's only fair? And polite? To the CS dept to let them use their platform. http://help.geni.com/

It's been optimized and customized for their use and *also* to make it easier for Geni users.

For instance, they spent literally months copying information from the http://wiki.geni.com/ to the newer (and more secure) help platform. Therefore there actually IS one consolidated location where Geni members, old and new, can get information and interact with staff.

Pleas let me know if I'm incorrect about any of this. I really just want to be useful.

Judy Baumgarten (Kornfeld)

Tagging for your attention. And no, Geni didn't ask me to do this. :). I've just had good results, when members ask "how to" questions, pointing them to FAQ.

I used to have to keep my own notepad notes.

So this is a LOT of progress in less than six months.

@Judy: I'm not asking you to stop posting. I'm asking you to be clearer about what you're asking for, because as it stands, I can't comprehend what problem you have with the existing help system. I reviewed your sequence of comments to demonstrate WHY I am confused. If my confusion angers you, then I am sorry... but in any conversation, generally the responsibility lies with the poster, not the reader, to get their point across.

Judy Baumgarten (Kornfeld)

I'm sort of where GDT is, in that I'd like to understand better what your concern / issue is with the Geni help, but it's not clear to me what capabilities you're seeking.

Now, I do think it is a bit of an "artificial barrier" that one has to log into the Help platform separately from the Genealogy platform -- but that is a technical implementation choice Geni.com made (probably to make it simpler for them to administer the Help platform without compromising the security of Geni.com).

I'm fine. I get geni (most of the time). I'm talking about the new user who signs on, and does not know how to use all of the resources you mention here, because they are simply not easily highlighted. That is my opinion, based on my early experiences and feedback from relatives who were new users. I think geni is a wonderful platform, but you are losing people before they start because the help features are not easy to find. Everyone who has posted here has lost sight of that, again, in my opinion.

No I don't think we have. I for one have talked about how "help" has gotten easier, more searchable and more findable in six short months.

I had asked - what suggestions do you have for improvement - so I can support the ideas, perhaps emphasize to Geni. I explained (I hope) the system by which anyone can make a suggestion for improvement. And then got the "I shouldn't have to" answer.

I think - what Judy "may" be asking for is:

1) Field Help OR (at least 2 below)
2) Screen Help
3) move Help tab - to Top of every page (vs tiny text bottom of page)
4) 15 point - New user Tips page - Top of the Help portal page

Geni employees do read the discussions and we take suggestions from them all the time. We are actually investigating some ways of making the Geni getting started process easier right now.

Michelle,

Please try to find a few people who do not know anything about Geni to test any changes. Look at how they try to find information and see if you can make it easier for them.
Remember to ask some people who are not used to computers and the internet and may not know why some text on a page has a different colour and who do not know what a Wiki or a Blog are.

Also try it out for people who do not have perfect eye sight and may be using a monitor with low screen resolution.

Thanks for the suggestion Job Waterreus. We do conduct user testing of the site and we regularly watch new and returning Geni users use the site at conferences.

Michelle,

I saw some people struggle with it. When I started I also had a hard time finding all the information. The Wiki is a good starting point for the native English reading people that know about computers. But it takes a lot of knowledge for granted. When you do not know how something is called or done it is a lot more difficult to use a help system.

Try finding Help if you do not know about hyperlinks or if your ye sight is not so good or if your screen resolution is so low it is outside the visible area of the screen

Try looking for "getting started" on the Help.

Possibly folks might want to use this thread for discussion of the Help Platform: http://www.geni.com/discussions/100936

Erica - re: http://www.geni.com/discussions/99067?msg=755739
You suggest that the Login for the Help screen is somehow "extra security" -- I think it is the opposite!! I work on a Public Computer. If I am logged in to Geni, and go to "Add a Comment" or whatever on the Help Platform, it automatically logs me in to Help. BUT if I log out of Help, it does not automatically log me out of Geni. AND if I go back to geni without logging out of Help, and log out of Geni, I am not logged out of Help. This is NOT added security.
If I start with Help not logged in to Geni, it sends me to the Geni Login, then immediately returns me to the Help Screen - so I am even less likely to realize, after logging out, that I have only logged out of Help, and not out of Geni - This is very much NOT added security.

- see the discussion mentioned at start of this comment for why I find creating a New Request to be basically useless (tho, possibly less so if accompanied by and linked to from a Public Discussion). [And I will repeat my comments about Login on Help there as well.]

You probably need to make the suggestion on the help platform.;)

Lo,

It seems that discussion is more about the technical side of the Help platform. I'm more concerned with the content. Are you sure you want both in the same discussion?

Geoffrey - I thought Judy was very clear.
re: http://www.geni.com/discussions/99067?msg=755821
-- my take/rephrasing, using your numbering:
- 1) Judy wants a good, usable Help Platform, especially one that can be of use to Novices.
--2) Erica posts link to the current Help Platform, which majorly fails to fit the bill - ie it fails totally to do what Judy is requesting (at least in Judy's opinion, and also in mine)
--3) Judy replies she is not going to (perhaps not able to) list and explain and discover all that would be required to modify the current (unhelpful/not wildly helpful to the novice) Help Platform into one that would do the job she has requested.
--4) Judy attempts to re-state / rephrase in general, descriptive terms what she is hoping the Geni-Staff (or somebody) will create / provide so Novices will have an easier time.

Lois

Obviously you don't remember what was there before, or rather the lack of.

What's on offer now is so much better in a really short time.

May I also add that organizing and populating a help platform costs $$ - something members seem reluctant to get involved with.

Maybe you get what you pay for.

To perhaps resurrect one of the original focus points of this thread, Private User wrote elsewhere:

"... my tree is private as far as Geni allows.

IF Geni change the possibility to keep one's tree private I deeply hope, that Geni stop the possibility to google public profiles with all information ..."

I am a bit puzzled by this statement, and I would like to understand better why someone would like to keep information about ancestors several generations removed from being "public".

I thoroughly understand the desire -- indeed, the requirement -- to be able to intentionally control the information about living persons, as well as (probably) their immediate deceased parents and siblings.

I'm not asking in an effort to try to sway one way or another, but to understand the perceived value of using Geni.com for a private tree -- rather than using any number of other "cloud" (web-based) or local "desktop" computer-based genealogy systems which are focused on supporting "private" trees.

Dan,

I cannot speak for Henry, but I do also keep most profiles private.
The reason is the matching logic of Geni. It will tell another (possible PRO) user there is a potential match, when there really is no match.
It is a pity that some pro users do not look any further but just join the profiles when they can.
They do not have to ask any more when a profile is public, so I made them private. If someone ask and gives me enough information to verify a match I will make to profile public so it can be merged (and keep profiles that have multiple managers public [crossing my fingers and hoping for the best])

Thank you Lois. I thought I was clear too, so it helps when others validate that. Honestly, I think many of you in this discussion are too experienced to understand why geni is still too complicated to figure out for the average user. Perhaps geni needs to put together some new user focus groups to understant why that is. But putting a HELP button at the top of the screen with a good search function (the current help at the bottom is easily missable and when I've tried to use it, I'm unable to find answers to my questions.). And you need a GETTING STARTED WITH GENI button at the top as well, with links to real live geni people who can help if you cannot find the answer. Just my opinion.

Dan Cornett

I see you have made a quote of something I wrote on the thread Geni just got a lot better.

If you read my post there in full, in stead of quoting a part of it, I think you might understand what I mean. I was talking about the fact that public profiles in here are totally open to be googled with all your information - your work. And ... I wrote something about the site Archives too.
And I wrote that I want Geni to stop that traffic before making all profiles public.

In fact Geni's world tree ends up not being Geni's or the Geni users - but the internetusers.

In the meantime users are paying in here to be able to add their profiles. Can you stop laughing ... I cannot. That's why some of my tree is private.

Dan.

I'll repeat my reasons for leaving Geni, and why all possible profiles are private.

1. When Geni introduced non-collaboration as a feature in August, the prime reason for being with Geni evaporated. Pro members keep saying they always collaborate, and then happily merge profiles without making contact.
2. A large amount of original research went into each profile. This has already been damaged or removed, and because Geni only monitors the basic details we have no idea who did it.
3. My 'team' was trying to work out how to rectify three stupid merges, when another four appeared. When do you feel we should give up?
4. Recently, Geni notifies that a merge had been made and who did it. It didn't before. This showed that the persons doing the merge had no particular interest in either side of the merge, but just like playing connect-the-dots.
5. I am advised that instead of building my tree from the comfort of my own home, I should go to the library for some functions, and I should be very pleased with this new feature.
6. Now that non-collaboration is a feature, one branch of my tree will appear as on ancestry (it is wrong), and another as it appears on myheritage (which is also wrong) - there is nothing I can do about it.

If I might add, becoming a Pro doesn't help any of these concerns (except for the library).

One member of the team was a Pro member, and was penalised for it. It was to her profiles that the crazy merges were attached. Mine, as a basic member, were protected.

Saying that Geni is a start-up is absurd. How long has Geni been going again? To say that things are on track to improve the site is similar to Chevrolet saying that much of the car has problems but next years model will be better, so why don't you buy this years model?

With collaboration removed, Geni has become a communal repository, nothing more.

Dan Cornett - responding to: http://www.geni.com/discussions/80793?msg=756541 - you say: "However, if they wish to "connect" with the public "Forest", then there should be rules (enforced) about ... " -

Please note - Connecting to the Big Tree for many is not some positive we wished for, but rather something forced upon us. Personally, I did not want to connect to the Big Tree. The connection was made without the approval of anyone on my Tree. This was done repeatedly to many, many folks.

Now they have changed the rules again, but it is rather like locking the barn door after the horse has escaped. Given all the merges and connections forced on us, I have no idea how we could now manage to cut ourselves off sensibly and in a way that would stick. But it is something I and many of my relatives are seriously not happy about.

Just re-stating some things to be sure I understand:

I've read two primary concerns regarding public profiles;

(#1) Making a profile public makes the information contained in it available to the "public at large" (i.e.: any Internet user via a search engine).

My reaction: Yep. It's public. It doesn't matter by what means I access "public information" (whether via a search engine or via Geni.com).

(#2) I lose control over who can connect with or modify the information.

This I understand. This is a concern to be dealt with for any "community-built" system. In a lot of ways, the "Big Tree" of Geni.com is just a specialized Wiki -- and (especially in the early years, apparently) there were few means to control those who abused the 'collaborative' aspect.

Furthermore, there aren't currently sufficient "tools" for most users (even paying users!) to be able to collaborate solely with trusted family & friends -- if you will, having their own "sandbox", with "fences" between the "sandboxes". Right now, it is all just one big public playground where anyone willing to pay the admission price can go anywhere on the "playground".

In addition, there are insufficient tools (currently) to be able to "undo" mistakes -- by ourselves or by others. Most particularly to "undo" (roll-back) a merge once it is 'completed'. That is a major deficiency and source of frustration.

Does that reflect the main issues regarding "why to use private profiles"? (Oh, of course, obviously, for living people, private profiles should provide privacy for personal information.)

[ [I raised the question originally to try to clarify and separate the issues regarding public / private profiles from the issues regarding Geni.com policies which encourage -- or discourage -- collaboration and sharing. I know ... they *are* somewhat intertwined ...] ]

Dan,

Geni still has the concept of family trees, individually managed, linked together to form the world tree. It is the Pro members who are trying to put their own interpretation on this, and causing problems.

It is clearly stated in http://www.geni.com/company/privacy

I have one Timeline Event in particular, to which someone added some astonishing and valuable information. We would dearly love to contact this person, but I guess we will never find out who it was. Collaboration?

By saying Geni is now a wiki, you are agreeing that it has become a communal repostory, nothing more.

One suggestion is that if there is a particular public profile or cluster of profiles that are the subject of repeated merges in error, that users contact one of the Curators and ask that he or she curate those profiles, which includes the ability to lock them.