"Died Young" - grammatically incorrect and therefore intellectually offensive.

Thanks for the list, June. These are the old, wonderful, familiar abbreviations. When I was first computerizing my genealogy I tried to keep them, but after awhile it was too much work.

I wonder if these would work outside the world of western Europe and it's cultural descendants? If we had a dsp graphic, for example, would people know what it means? Would it be right to use it for a Lakota man? For a Turkish woman?

Justin - you know the answer on Lakota man, I think. :)

Yes, Erica, maybe I do know the answer ;)

What I'm really wondering is whether it is possible to create a graphic shorthand that would work across cultures. I don't see how it could be done, but there are so many creative people in the world that someone else might know a way.

I think my answer to that would be that everyone enjoys finding appropriate images for their trees. So I would worry more about the "task at hand.".

Fay Baldwin articulated the reason I ever used a generic graphic: to ensure that historic profiles, who had siblings with the same name, are not merged together. This applies to the lines I pursue, which are in English.

Now i just make Master Profiles of both (or more) siblings & use a note in the curator text box: Died young.

Gender never occurred to me to articulate because that's taken care of by the default silhouette.

I figured that "died young" translates easily enough.

It never occurred

I keep going back to the problem that European users might object to an English-language graphic. Most American genealogy, almost by definition, will extend into Europe and into other language areas. So, a graphic might be suitable for English lines, but suddenly inappropriate if inserted into (say) a Swedish tree.

Agneta Åhrberg since you're Swedish maybe you can answer Justin? I would not add an English language graphic to a Swedish language profile.

I HATE to see that image "Died Young" it is a profile picture, I made a Cherob image for the ones I have put up, anyone is welcome to use it.
I am talking about babies and some 8 and 10, I imagine the grief od the time, and how the parents must have loved them. They deserve as much as anyone. I have a photoshop "brush" with about 30 different angels :)
Roger Cochrane

Shaz that is a beauty! If you don't mind, I've added to the "media gallery" for this project

http://www.geni.com/projects/Provenance-and-Images/photos/1020

Anyone can then "tag" the image to additional profiles.

Unfortunately it's still not an image I can use in my personal tree. :)

In most of the world today many people speak english as a seccond or third language. The whole of Great Britain and United Kingdom speaks english. Half of Canada, New Zeeland, Australia and on Ireland.

Until less than 20-30 years ago all finnish speaking persons was forced to learn swedish in school. Today the pupils can chose english instead. Some people in Finland (and Åland) have swedish as their motherlanguage. They have had the possibility to chose german, french or english. As in Sweden most pupils learn english as a seccond language and can study several other languages from about 13 years of age. As in the rest of Europe.

Until 1945 german was the academic work-language beside latin. The latin is mostly used within natural scince today. It's only few persons actually speaking latin, but it's used as if normal among us working within healthcare. In the english-speaking world the latin words for different diagnosis are "noraml english". The german language died promptly as useful within academic groups 1945. All scince journals changed into english. That's the international accepted language in use.

I don't dislike my mother language swedish at all because of this english status of today. But I have to use english to speak to my finnish neighbours today. I have never understood icelandic although it really old "swedish". We use english. I prefer swedish of course, but I'm totally aware of the (hard) fact
it's not useful within an international context. So this is a question: Shall I change, when needed to be understood, or shall I change the communication world of today? (Of course I can think of how to protect my swedish also, but not by going to France and try to force french people to understand me.)

About the "HATE" of the 'Died young' image I think it's good to differ between the hate of young persons dying and the notation of the fact that they do. It does not say anything about the deep love parents of course did feel. One problem on Geni is though: All Geni users don't have the same religion or belives. I therefore prefer the two words "Died young" rather than any symbols that might offend in ways we don't understand out from our own culture. In the christian world therer are several different crosses which are "abosuloutely correct". In some belives dead persons become angels and in other belives not. In a World Tree we do have to accept and respect other belives but our own.

Result!!! ;-) !!

With the project Jewish Families of Krakow an image has been used to depict the early demise of babies and children before the age of 13.

The age of 13 is significant in the Jewish religion, representing the "coming of age" of a boy to manhood (Barmitzvah) and a girl to becoming a woman (Batmitzvah).

The image we use is a section of a gravestone showing the symbolism of a tree that is cut down before maturity, credit to Hatte Rubenstein Blejer.

http://media.geni.com/p13/61/f2/0d/51/5344483b3b457922/polish_child...

Thank you Pam (and Hatte). I hope you don't mind but I've also added this lovely & restrained image to http://www.geni.com/projects/Provenance-and-Images/photos/1020

The media repository for the project http://www.geni.com/projects/Provenance-and-Images/1020

(from the front page of a project you click on "photos and documents," then on view all.". Select an image, press "edit" below it, and it can be "tagged" to other projects, and "tagged" to individual profiles.)

I have stood in the background weighing up the viewpoints expressed.

I am NOT offended by the use of "Died Young" - perhaps because I use the picture on profiles I work with, to distinguish the "end of line" concept.. I do not conside it disrespectful nor would I be offended by having it attached to a family member's profile. It might not be the best grammar, but it tells it as it is with the least number of words.

I certainly would not use those words to a bereaved parent in a face to face situation, but to illustrate a family tree - I cannot see that it is insensitive or disrespectful or objectionable.

It is generic enough and I have generally used it for someone from an early age up to late teen years where they never married. As a rule of thumb I do not use it for anyone in their 20's and upwards.

To devise different pictures for different situations would make things just too complicated, and after all, it is only a profile photo. Where there is a genuine childhood photo or a gravestone with inscription visible, it would be my preference to use them.
As has been said - the actual dates as well as "Cause of death" together with "About" give plenty of scope for detail and I certainly do not rely on the words "Died Young" to determine circumstances.

My tuppence worth. (:>])

W: Actually I, as swedish, prefer the complete english version instead of a "halfway" swedish. We are less than 10 million inhabitants in Sweden today. Everyone is not speaking swedish and very many come from other countries. We also have all our "emigrants" to New Sweden, to USA during 1800:s. In the beginning many due to the "mormone"-establishment in Utah but later on due to starvation in Sweden. I myself have relatives in USA and in Australia. Some of them have learnt swedish! But mostly it's easiest to use english. But my old aunty, who had never left Sweden, at 75 years of age went to see her cousins in US without no other language swedish. "Of course they can understand me. They are not stupied! Anyone do understand swedish. Off she went and stayed for 6 weeks meeting US-immigrants in the 2:d-:th generation. She was speaking no other language but swedish. As for 75 years. And concluded to my mother "There you see. They can speak normally as everyone." My mother of course learnt german in school as all young pupils did in Sweden til 1945. As grownup she has learnt english and even if it does not feel comfortable in her mouth and thougts she do use it now and then.

Pam: In christianity there is "confirmation" as a symbol of faith+growth. It differs a bit between different "school" but lutherans at about 14 years of age, catholics around 8 years of age and so on. (I have a very nice letter from an great oncle in US writing home to tell "I have now studied and has passed the Konfirmation and would like to tell I have bought new trousers with a zipper for grown-ups".

To all: In the Bible the Old Testamente it's written about all these languages God shaped to make kind of a hell to people who thought they could learn and understand more than him. The Old Testamente is the part of the Bible the christians have directly from jewish speakers before Christ. And also among muslims these texts are in common. So this statement of Gods punishment (all the different languages) is something we have to work with in a creative way.

I saw the list above with many ways to tell "Died Young" in written text. I do understand them only because you told me. I will not be able to learn them during my lifetime. And my question is: Will the Geni-computers and Geni-servers learn?

It's a little bit like speaking medicine/midwifery with a physcian/midwife from China. Shall I speak swedish, the chinese person chinese or can we agree to using english and "medicin""-latin if speaking about a specific diagnose among women in common for women in Sweden and in China? (Without knowing portugese at all I was able to visit obstetric clinics in Brazil. We spoke mostly english and some german, they spoke portugese and german. But within the job: Latin and "anglolatin".

I can make other Angels, pink and blue, and, can find an image suitable for you Erica, if no other is ok. (or Make).
Do I need to change my settings to share better?
I want to make crests for the main families also.
Found a great cemetery plugin for wordpress, maybe we can set one up here, and all contribute the photos to it? It works like find a grave.

I personally think that these images should not have crosses, stars of David, angels, babies etc. etc. Anything that makes a comment.

O my, sorry. I asked for images. I used the white and blue dove and then June made me new ones and I will as I come across them replace it.
Anything looks better than a grey block with grey hair, don't you think.
June thank you for all the hard work put into these images. I feel it is a personal feeling and as long as there is nothing offensive like a devil to represent death I see no harm. LOL.

The profile picture is VERY important to the memory of that person, I also do not like tombstones on the profiles, and why I want a separate addon site for that. "Died Young" pic is offensive to the memory of that person, like, is that all they are remembered for?
This young man was a profile I was drawn to, it was blank... nothing on it,
I cried half the day doing it. What might we miss by dismissing them as died young without issue????
Andrew Frederick Weatherby Beauchamp Proctor

O yes Sharon Angels would loook nice but wI saw higher up sosmeone saying English is a cultural or something language. I am just as proud of my Afrikaans and as all Afrikaans people can speak English, Netherlands and understand German, I think it is just fair to have a place for Afrikaans, even only on Afrikaans images. I know someone aske me once- Jeanette I think - why I as Afrikaans speaking person place English images. Maybe we must go for Englis/Afrikaans. English/French,English/Netherlands, English/Spanish, etc. on all images. LOL.
Remember I am Afrikaans so please take this in the good will it was meant.

Sharyn - your settings are fine, images just need to be put somewhere we can find them. This project is good, I think, because we can all remember to search project for "image" and here we'll be!

I certainly will use angels & cherubs & crosses in the medieval tree if I can't find anything more personal. I like the historic aspect to imagery.

You may not have this is Australia and South Africa as much? but we have the most marvelous 17th century cemeteries with amazing stonework for the gravestones. They are works of art.

I like lit candle imagery!

I just can't use them in my own tree because ... :):)

Lea I love the doves. June made me some as well. Mooi so.

Our Native Aborigionals do not look at pictures of the dead, and, in fact, when the news is about to show a picture of a dead Aborigional, they warn those viewers to turn the TV off.
So many cultures, and those profiles should probably be managed by the ppl who understand it. In some ways the "free for all" adding and disruption of the tree should end. Circles drawn in time lines and areas allocated to the qualified to add and edit. Then the numbers would be stable, and profiles added to projects will be reserved in ID number.
PS. I recognise a profile by the picture, not the words.

Erika I would like a candle as remember image. Remember forever/Onthou vir ewig.

In Australia the leases are running out on many graves, they are being bull dozed to make room for new ones, without families being notified. It is apauling and sacreligeous and disrespectful of the dead, fancy, ppl being thrown out of their graves :(

PS. Can you make a separate section for crests?

Hmm maybe the county & clan projects for crests & coats of arms?

Eish!!

Copour codes, as pointed out previously, are useful in profile view where the tree colouring is not reflected.

Please could you elaborate on what you mean by "In some ways the "free for all" adding and disruption of the tree should end." Private User ?

Wow, I missed a lot of discussion.

I used the image "Died Young" to prevent erroneous merges, especially where there were multiple children in the same family with the same given name. For example three Josephs. The first two died young and the third lived to maturity, married and had offspring.

People pay attention to an image when they are merging whereas I have found that they often do not read Curator's Notes or About Me. Or even pay attention to birth date discrepancies.

They see three children named Joseph and merge them together. It annoys me to no end :)