Thank you @Erica Howton ! Perhaps we should have undone the last merger. I assume there are a lot of strange relations around in this cluster now.
This profile is also wrong I see: Gisela von Zürichgau - von Nellenburg
Thank you @Erica Howton ! Perhaps we should have undone the last merger. I assume there are a lot of strange relations around in this cluster now.
This profile is also wrong I see: Gisela von Zürichgau - von Nellenburg
Thanks all for working on this, but does Eberhard von Thurgau - Zürichgau not have any descendants now? Notes seem to indicate that he does, but maybe I am reading it wrong.
@ Susanne Floyd and Erica Howton
Hi Susanne I saw that yesterday. There are now two Eberhards.
A) Eberhard von Thurgau - Zürichgau
and B) Eberhard II, Graf von Zürichgau
(They were unfortunately merged by Debbie som days ago. They had after the merge a double set of parents. Then they were separated. )
Maybe they both need to be MPd so as not to merge again. Eberhard II, Graf von Zürichgau is my 29th ggf according to Geni. Looks like a feasible path.
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000174304420040?to=600000004...
Berenthobald I d’Ascanie, I
Berenthobald I d’Ascanie, I
A bad merge appeared for Charles Martel: https://www.geni.com/merge/view?revision_id=79947340620
The "daughter" Aude d’Autun looks to be the same as Aldana.
Trying to figure out the problem with my merge of Charles Martel. I understood Aude and Aldana were alternative names for the same daughter. See, e.g, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel How did I screw up?
Capt Henry Edward Heater -- the main issue is that duplicates in the historical Tree, especially up so far in the branches, create both tree conflicts and data conflicts, and create an enormous amount of work.
so if you have solidly sourced information that contradicts what is in the Tree -- that is, either primary documents or good secondary sources that cite the primary documents -- please contact the curator of the profile in question, or start a public discussion from the discussion tab on the profile.
If you would like for the profile to have variant names (and all medieval profiles have legitimate variant names), then those can go either in the nickname field, or a language field can be added to the profile, if it's a matter of a different language than what is there already.
And again, if the profile is locked (this would be because it's been badly changed or merged before, or is vulnerable for some other reason), you can contact the curator; if the curator doesn't get back to you in a reasonable amount of time, you can contact one of the other curators working in the area.
but duplicate lines in the medieval Tree cause a great deal of work, and for some time now the protocol on Geni has been to disconnect them, if they are already merged in below the middle ages, or merge them in, if they have already been merged in, and then isolate them so that Customer Service can delete them.
So thanks to Hubert de Vos, I now understand that although Charles Martel’s wikipedia article states Aude is an alternative name for his daughter Aldana, this is merely speculative. A curator’s note to that effect may prevent future mistakes. I know that I reached Aude through another secondary source that also gave Charles as her father, and when I double-checked it with the wikipedia article, the merge appeared to be a good one.
Capt Henry Edward Heater -- the problem is not that the name is wrong -- the problem is that when you merge profiles that do not have the exact information in the exact places as the original, you end up with data conflicts. And the number of tree and data conflicts in the medieval tree is astronomical.
So if you have information that you would like added to the medieval Tree, it should go into the profile that is already in the Tree.
You may not know this trick --
the way to find out how many data and tree conflicts we have caused is to go up to the Research link at the top of a Geni page.
Click on the Merge Center link.
Click on Tree Conflicts (or Data Conflicts; you can do either first).
On the Tree Conflicts page, go up to the "Viewing" link, and in the drop down menu click on "Updated by Me."
and if there are no tree conflicts that you have made, Yay!
You can do it with Data conflicts as well -- there are usually more of those.
I don't know who rejected your merge suggestion, but I presume it was done because you should not be creating duplicates for profiles in the Medieval Tree at all. Request Management will give you management of the profile.
Please read the reasons in the project to which this Discussion is attached: https://www.geni.com/projects/Historical-Tree-Clean-Up-Please-Park-...
LET US EXPLAIN:
1.For Those Of You Who Have Been Finding & Merging in Historical Duplicates:
When the unsourced Historical duplicates get merged in, it takes us hours and hours - sometimes days and days - to clean up the tree conflicts and the data conflicts, as we merge in the rest of the line. Unless you have the tools to isolate and delete, please do not merge in profiles that date before 1600. This high up in the tree the potential for exponentially increasing Tree Conflict errors is far more work to fix than lower down. It also leaves the relatively well established Geni Historical Tree in a permanent state of embarrassing chaos.
INSTEAD Please rather put any duplicate Historical profiles in this Discussion & the Curators will figure out what to do with them before they get merged into the world tree.
So! That is your new goal! Send us all those duplicates. We need help finding them. All Welcome to join. Use the top right hand corner <Actions> pop-down menu to Request to Collaborate.
2.For Those Of You Who Have Created Historical Duplicates:
Geni can be confusing, because it's not like other genealogical sites. You do not have to enter into Geni all the ancestors you know, because a great many of them will already be there. Once you connect the nearest ancestors you can into the ONE world tree, you are connected to all the early ancestors who are already in the Geni world tree. As a rule of thumb, it's probable that if you have a profile before 1600, it's in the Geni tree already. Since the goal here is to create one world tree, we all work at having one profile per person. That means that all the duplicates have to get dealt with.
DID YOU KNOW:
* Geni uses blue boxes (& blue circles on tree view) to let you know that there may be a duplicate of the profile you've created. It can be difficult to find the early duplicates on Geni, because often the spelling of a profile from before 1600 can have several variant spellings. If you have trouble finding duplicates for early profiles, please contact one of the Historical Curators. The list of curators, by geographic area, is here: https://www.geni.com/projects/Geni-Curators/9960. As a rule of thumb, it's probable that if you have a profile before 1600, it's in the Geni tree already.
*Instead of creating duplicates of the profiles on the Historical part of the tree, just use the top right pop-down menu to Request Management. Or, if you have information that differs from what you are seeing in the tree, you can contact the managers - or the curator, if it is a Master Profile - or start a public discussion from the profile itself. (Please be aware, though, that the quality of your sources will matter to your argument! There is an enormous amount of misinformation on the web, and personal trees that are on the web, without sources to back them up, are not in themselves reliable sources.)
* Remember however, that if you're in the World Tree, & Geni shows a relationship line between you & that profile, it is already part of your tree Once you connect the nearest ancestors you can into the World tree, you are connected to all the early ancestors who are already on the Geni World Tree.
* If the historical area interests you, there is usually a project that you can join to participate in research & help keep the line correct. Medieval Europe provides a list of all the Medieval projects.
As to Curator Notes for Charlemagne's family - there is a whole project on that, and too much info for a CN: https://www.geni.com/projects/Charlemagne-Direct-Descent-Line/1550
The link to the project is in the CN.
Please join.
Charlemagne's profile is completely RLed as it is the most popular profile on the tree, and accrued merge-ins at a rate of hundreds a month - destabilizing the medieval tree with tree conflicts faster than we could fix them. Had your profile been merged in, none of it's relationships would have been retained anyway.
It was not a duplicate issue. It was not about Charlemagne. It is as simple as I already explained. I had separately loaded Aude’s profile from another source that gave Charles Martel as her father. I did further research to determine whether Charles in fact had a daughter named Aude. I found Charles’ wikipedia article which stated Aude was an alternative name for his daughter Aldana, and the spouse I already had for Aude matched the spouse in the Wikipedia article. The merge appeared appropriate to eliminate the duplicate of Aude/Aldana. Unbeknownst to me, Geni previously had determined that the wikipedia entry was too speculative as to whether Aude and Aldana were the same (though they shared siblings with the same name). When Geni makes such a determination, when there are competing reliable sources to the contrary, it should add a curator’s note to that effect.
Anne Brannen: You are apparently suggesting a different reason from de Vos who originally flagged my merge request. If I understand you, your statement is that instead of merging Charles Martel’s profiles, and then resolving conflicts and eliminating duplicates. I instead should have merged Aude with Aldana. ?.?
Capt Henry Edward Heater -- What Sharon and I are both saying is that it's not ok to create medieval duplicates at all.
Did you go to see what sorts of data and tree conflicts you have created, as I explained above?
Please do not create any more medieval profiles; even the ones that are clearly duplicates are creating a great many problems, and the ones that don't look like they are duplicates are variant spellings of profiles already in the Tree.
If indeed you have reliable evidence that something should be changed, you can start a public discussion from the discussion tab of the profile in question.
Example of why not to make duplicates on the Medieval tree Mieszko II Lambert, MEGA CLONED TREE
Please check and isolate this whole combobulation before it infects others. Livio Scremin posted it on the Attention Curator, Please Assist, but this a 5- alarm fire needing to be quenched with pending merge approvals out there. One wrong click. Just some crazy going on. Even the pictures....
Sorry - reading fast - Charles Martel - the rest applies.
Whether you uploaded a gedcom duplicate (Geni shouldn't allow you to this far back) or created one -the effect is the same.
A Discussion about Aud (which one?) can be created from her or Charles's profile, if you want to query the research.
Can someoine with knowlegde in the von Schwalenberg (von Itter) tree in the early 1100's check out this suggested merge. There are some family relationships that need to be fixed before the merge can be completed, but my knowledge in the area isn't good enough.
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000004533735753?return=match...
This might be a good merge (exact same father).
https://www.geni.com/merge/compare/6000000002187684789?to=600000001...