Unsourced Profiles I Can't Validate

Started by Debbie Gambrell on Saturday, October 26, 2019
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10/26/2019 at 8:27 AM

Going thru some lines that I'm supposedly descended from and there are some that have no source and when I search online to try to find more info on them, I find nothing Biblical or historical documenting them, which makes me skeptical since the authentic people in the lines refer to a Wikipedia source and/or scripture at the very least. If they're historical Biblical folks, there should be something validating that in their profiles, in my opinion.


Tobit ben Hananiah (twin)

Elias ben Tobit, Governor of Judea 365-360 BCE

This link is the only one I found that lists some of these folks and it's a book about the AntiChrist!

Antigone Soko ben Simeon

Zeredah ben Antigone

Rabbi Joazar ben Zeredah

Rabbi Yohanan ben Joazar

I'm sure there are others up and down the line without Biblical/historical sources. I don't know if they're real people or or if the genealogy is real or not. ?

Private User
10/26/2019 at 8:42 AM

This ancient Davidic line which goes all the way back to Adam -- is work in progress -- and it would be a shame to destroy all the work that has already been done on it. I would leave this to the genealogists who specialize in Biblical pedigrees.

Private User
10/26/2019 at 8:44 AM

The source you cited referenced the Jewish Encyclopedia, which is a better source for this sort of thing.

10/26/2019 at 9:05 AM

In the biblical tree, only a well-versed curator should be involved. Any small change will make mistakes in thousands of people.
That is why I have read in the past, and I now also call on geni curators to lock in master profiles and lock all profiles in the bible tree

10/26/2019 at 9:34 AM

Well, the reason I posted here was to get help from the specialists you are talking about. If I had intended to do it myself, I wouldn't have posted here. This says this is the project for Biblical Tree - UNKNOWN source. ???

10/26/2019 at 9:46 AM

Debbie Gambrell

I wonder, for hours you worked on the biblical tree today, if you don't understand it well why did you even do it?

10/26/2019 at 9:55 AM

That's pretty rude, Haim Wartski, (HaCohen). I'm not working on the Biblical tree, per se. I'm working on my family tree and it's leading me to these people on Geni who aren't scripturally referenced and I can find nothing else historical on them. That's pretty easy to understand. Geni isn't perfect and I do find errors in it and work with curators to fix what can be fixed, to make it better for everyone connected. I'm not trying to find fault with these profiles. I'd just like to see some references/sources so I know those people are valid. I don't think that's expecting too much. There are often lines in Geni that are shut down as fictional, etc., so I know that not everyone in Geni is an actual person. Most Biblical people have some sort of scriptural reference to them or at least something historical noting when they lived, etc.

Additionally, this project for unsourced profiles wasn't created just for me. It already existed and clearly recognized that there are unsourced profiles and says to bring them here. So I did. If you have a problem with that, that's your problem.

10/26/2019 at 10:01 AM

As for "understanding", if the person who builds the original profile knows that person is the child of a particular person, they had to get that information from somewhere. It only takes a minute to post that source rather than leaving it as an unsourced profile. Not every person who lived in Biblical times is equally well known as many others. If you know every person in Biblical genealogy and their parents, spouses and children and have no need of any references for any of them, Haim Wartski, (HaCohen), kudos to you because that puts you way ahead of most of us.

10/26/2019 at 10:23 AM

Debbie Gambrell
First of all, all the profiles you've worked on (with no real knowledge of them) are my great grandparents, so that's my business
Secondly, geni is definitely not perfect, so if you think there is an error in the biblical tree in order to avoid further mistakes that affect thousands of people you should contact curator and not change things yourself.
And everything would have been avoided if the profiles had been locked and no one could make a change to the biblical tree, without curator

10/26/2019 at 10:55 AM

Haim Wartski, HaCohen, I never said it wasn't any of your business, but I came to this group for assistance regarding unsourced profiles that are supposed MY ancestors as well and all I've gotten is negativity. This group indicates it's where to come with unsourced profiles for that purpose. That seems to be very misleading.

What is there to be avoided? I don't know what I've done to any profiles that you could possibly object to. I had put "Need a source" in a couple of them and then went back and removed even that after finding this project group to come to about needing sources for them. And I don't think unsourced profiles that haven't been made Master Profiles should be locked because clearly they do need sources.

I would have thought there WOULD be a curator in a project group such as this. Clearly this group doesn't work on unsourced profiles in the Bible Tree.

As for my knowledge, one way to gain knowledge is to research, which is what I was doing. However, I could find nothing to learn about those particular profiles - nothing documenting them in scripture or anything historical. You haven't done one thing to help in that regard other than to keep telling me I have no business working on my ancestors if I have no knowledge of them, which makes no sense whatsoever.

I really have nothing else to say to you, Haim, as you have offered no help whatsover and only seem to want to criticize.

10/26/2019 at 11:07 AM

The description for this project says:

This "project" is part of the overall Biblical Tree. It is a place to save links to biblical profiles that do not have a known source.

If you know of actual historical writings that contain them, feel free to add references to them, or send a message to one of the Curators that attend the Biblical Tree, such as Shmuel-Aharon Kam or Justin Swanström.


1) I couldn't add references as it suggests, because I couldn't find any for the profiles listed, which is why I sought assistance in this group.

2) It indicates two curators who "attend" this group but who haven't joined the discussion.

Private User
10/26/2019 at 11:09 AM

There are so many projects including these themes that also touches biblical tree, here you can find many of those "related projects"

There are also so much literature that are still not in internet. It is a great and good task to add sources. It is recommended to add them from areas that are familiar or interests us a lot, so our ability and linguistic skills will be up to the task. I personally do not speak Hebrew and therefore do not understand texts that could contain important information. English, Spanish, Italian, German, Finnish, are most strongly in my focus linguistically, so in my family tree I can search for and inspect information with those languages, but of course in the lineages I concentrate primarily on increasing the sources of the last centuries.

Biblical trees are very complicated and it is good that there are several projects started.
Even if we see these individuals at the early end of our lineage, there may be hundreds of years of gaps in some lineages that require very special investigation.
Those old profiles with offspring - there are millions of them, having basicly all of us living today as descendant.

10/26/2019 at 11:14 AM

Debbie Gambrell
I'll answer you, and this will be my last word on the subject:
I am Jewish, choen a direct descendant of families and rabbinic dynasties and studied Bible, and I believe my knowledge on the Bible is greater than yours
And I dare not change biblical profiles
As long as you deal with your private tree everything is fine, but once you change things in the biblical tree that change the family trees of many (including me), surely I will come to the claims.
not change things and then open a discussion with the purpose of someone to rescue you from the mistakes you made, first open a discussion, and then if things need change, then the curator changes
Have a nice day

Private User
10/26/2019 at 11:44 AM

Debbie Gambrell For example רבי יוחנן בן יועזר takes us to Ancient Jewish Greek history. There you can study Essene texts‎, hellenistic Judaism‎, Jewish Ptolemaic history‎ and Rabbinic literature‎.

A lot of information can also be found on Wikipedia if the Hebrew names are known and written correct and if you understand the Hebrew well enough. With a little google search I could find some info in Hebrew, when search language is also hebrew, but the language is not working well when using google translator...

10/26/2019 at 12:06 PM

Haim Wartski, HaCohen

I DID NOT CHANGE THINGS AND THEN COME HERE FOR SOMEONE TO FIX SOMETHING! I don't know where on earth you're coming up with this stuff! And if you know so much, put your expansive knowledge to good use and by putting references in all those unsourced profiles so that it helps everyone descended from the lines rather than doing nothing but harassing someone who has not done one thing to deserve such rudeness from you. Also, you know nothing at all about me as far as my own studies or capabilities but you have certainly demonstrated your mastery of being judgmental and critical. I'm one step away from reporting you to Geni, and I'm not kidding.

Private User, thank you for rational comments. However, I always research before posting. I'd already Googled to try to find scriptural and/or historical references for the profiles I posted. I appreciate your suggestions though, because you don't presume to know what I have or haven't done but are trying to be helpful.

10/26/2019 at 12:10 PM

Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן and Justin Durand , given my experience in coming to this group for assistance with profiles that have no references, it might be a good idea to dissolve this group rather than other sincere Geni members being subjected to the kind of negativity expressed to me by Haim Wartski, (HaCohen). It has been a most unpleasant experience.

10/26/2019 at 3:45 PM

Well, I read somewhere, that Queen Elizabeth I or II has a family lineage that goes through King David to Adam and Eve.. I haven't checked out, but you would figure that who every did her tree must know what he or she was doing in researching biblical tree connections. I'll try to find it again. Ken

Private User
10/26/2019 at 5:20 PM

Elias ben Tobit, Governor of Judea 365-360 BCE is your 80th great grandfather.
Antigone Soko ben Simeon is your 78th great grandfather.
Zeredah ben Antigone is your 77th great grandfather.
Como verán según Geni son también mis abuelos pero no se me ocurre tocar nada en sus perfiles ese trabajo queda para Curadores expertos ,el álbum del mundo me dice que Estás conectado con 136,844,924 personas en Geni. Y dudo que porcentaje tiene fuente

Private User
10/27/2019 at 4:29 AM

Pam Wilson (on hiatus) Quizás debería opinar respecto a los cambios Pediah of Rumah

Private User
10/27/2019 at 12:26 PM

I found several references for Elias ben Tobit, Governor of Judea 365-360 BCE through Google Books.
For what they are worth, here are a few.


That said, it's my experience on Geni that the any of the lineages in antiquity are going to have some areas of speculation. For those of us with "Davidic lineages," it can mean a tree that sways in the wind quite a bit. Personally, I'm not happy about the slicing of our family's connect to ancient China via the Attila the Hun, "Scourge of God", King of the Huns and Genghis Khan. Honestly, the family resemblance to King Wen of Zhou, 周文王, 昌, 40 was almost as striking as that of MaHaRaL of Prague - המהר״ל מפראג.

10/27/2019 at 2:27 PM

Seriously, Haim...you're out of line.

Funny to see a discussion using the bible as a genealogical base, when most the families discussed are far anterior and when the bible is not even jewish, contrarily to the people mentionned.

Perzonally, our dna puts us in canaan over 2000 years ago. Genetic genealogy discredits some of the bible.

10/28/2019 at 9:40 AM

I mentioned one thing:
In order to engage and change things in the biblical tree, there must be someone with tremendous knowledge of the Bible. Anyone who has made hours of changes in the biblical tree(in my great-grandfathers profiles)
With no real knowledge of the subject,May I make a comment about that, which is what I did

10/29/2019 at 5:12 AM

I don't know about those people you named above, but the ones I saw on my Biblical tree looked correct to me. I believe in the Bible, as a good source, and in the first book of Matthew, New Testament, there is a full genealogy going back to Jesus. There is also a genealogy in the Book of Luke. So Matthew and Luke are good sources, as far as I am concerned. AS for the prophets, and Kings of Israel, these too are in the Old Testament of the Bible, listing all the Kings of Israel and all the prophets, also in the Bible. But specifically, I don't recognize the names above you mentioned, I would have to restudy my own Bible and the genealogy, which in my opinion is a good source, in the first book of Matthew, New Testament of the Bible. One of my own ancestors, William Tyndale, translated the Bible from Latin in England, which no one could read, and he went to school and studied all the different languages to translate the Bible into English, and went to Israel and learned Arabic language, and continued to translate the Bible into English so everyone could read it. He studied for many years translating this Bible and studied all languages to do so.

Private User
10/29/2019 at 8:43 AM

Haim Wartski, HaCohen,
you are being VERY rude. Please stop. NOW.

You are not the guardian of the Bible Tree (no-one is), and these are everyone's ancestors, not just yours. That said, there are NO CONNECTIONS between the Bible Tree and present time that have ANY level of validity. Wishful thinking is NOT a source.

10/30/2019 at 7:20 PM

Shmuel-Aharon Kam (Kahn / שמואל-אהרן קם (קאן
Being a curator gives you no right to insult, and hurt me And hurt my good name!!!!!!!!
You have something to comment on, you could send me a private message, but you deliberately chose to hurt me publicly
I invested in my family tree for over 2000 hours, and it hurts my heart to see people who change and fake my family tree.Something you could prevent (at least in part),If you were locking the The biblical tree.I have addressed you many times in private as well as in public hearings,But you ignored all my inquiries, and you didn't even bother to answer me.
Many people clung to my family tree and forged a fictitious family tree taken from the world of fantasies and imaginations,I didn't see you say anything about it, and certainly not publicly insulting
By being a curator you are supposed to be a moderating and non-agitating factor,
But you chose to insult me publicly, so I demand Public apology from you!!!
haim wartski(hachoen)-A direct and true descendant !!!!!

10/31/2019 at 5:44 PM

Haim Wartski, (HaCohen) you are completely out of line !!! and you owe everyone you have individually addressed, as well as everyone who has or will read this discussion an apology. GENI is a collaborative site and there is NO your tree OR my tree - it is all of our tree.
That being said - to all - there is NO definitive source that links the people listed in the bible(s) (regardless about which bible you are speaking) that is able to definitively link those biblical names with any know person whose offspring we can definitively trace. Jewish scholars have been addressing this issue for centuries with ZERO results. You are being completely hubris in your behavior in thinking anyone should listen to you without you documenting your information and the sources that prove and validate your findings. You have NO "proof texts" to support your claim(s). There is so much "folklore" that has developed over the millenniums that it is impossible to know truth from speculation.
You are welcome to "wish" anything you want - it simply does not make for facts ...
There are significant reasons why history refers to the "10 lost tribes."

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