Henry IV of England is your 24th great grandfather.

Started by Private User on Friday, August 16, 2013
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8/31/2013 at 7:26 AM

I wrote the former text in word, it happens that "word" corrects words without warning you and the word for "Ancestor" was changed to "Ancestro".

Private User
8/31/2013 at 8:27 AM

Gustavo Ferrero Gómez
Very interesting with the languages and the memory and such. Or maybe this is stored in our subconcious mind that is the biggest part of our brains but supposedly has no use. :)

8/31/2013 at 8:58 AM

The mechanism for conserving data from the past is most aparant on the Y chromosome pased from geneeration to generation without much mutation at all....Balanced by the every changing X chromosome being reduced by 50% in each succeeding generation....Justin has pointed out that these are but two of the 23 Pairs of Chromosomes that humans have....and all the assembler work at the gene level is done by Mitochondria in DNA, the helper part of every cell.....so information is clearly conserved for future recombination between our DNA at every level.....Whether HUMAN MEMORY can be stored is being explored by the Russians who see the vast amounts of capacity in DNA as the great library as it were of Human Communication/experience....swamp fauna can store and share memory over at least 3 generations once learned it is passed along to succeeding generations....so there is no reason to exclude higher life from that skill set.....DCR 1948

8/31/2013 at 9:13 AM

Gustavo, you asked whether there a possibility that memory could be stored in one or more of the human genes.

I don't really have a good answer. Geneticists say No. A firm No.

I wonder, though. It seems like there could be something like that. I read an article once about how the ability to speak a particular language is a deep pattern in the brain. The idea was that a baby in the womb is already learning the pattern by hearing its mother. Maybe the pattern could be genetic or partially genetic, even if the language is not.

Maybe I'm not in a position to judge. I own a New Age bookstore. We have a lot of books about things that science doesn't approve. There is even a book about how to change your DNA by changing your thoughts. I'm generally on the science side, but I keep an open mind. It could be that I think something is possible when really it's not.

8/31/2013 at 9:48 AM

Dale, your post reminded me about some articles I read a few months ago about epigenetics. Epigenetics is a study about how genes can be switched on or switched off, even though the genes themselves don't change.

There have been some interesting studies that seem to show that the children and grandchildren of people who survive wars and famines are affected by what their ancestors lived through.

One article I read said that the children and grandchildren of women who lived through a famine after World War II were smaller at birth, and had more health problems related to obesity, diabetes, anxiety, and depression.

I did a Google search to try to find that specific article. No luck, but I did find this article that is also interesting, but on a more general level. It's by a woman who is looking for ancestral memories from her Jewish ancestors in Spain:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/science/in-andalusia-searching-fo...

8/31/2013 at 10:38 AM

Thank you for your interesting answers gentlemen, sometime in the near future we will have this cleared out, I see no other way you can evolute and change, without a link between your ancestor's experience and your own.

8/31/2013 at 10:50 AM

By the way Justin, I've read the article you linked to us, very interesting. It tells some hints of my beliefs and thoughts. It could also explain why some people when hypnotized, start remembering "Past Lives" which could be very likely fragments of the memories of distant ancestors,.... fascinating !

8/31/2013 at 11:39 AM

New research on DNA is exploring its electromagnetic properties. Does DNA communicate electromagnetically within the human body, and outside the human body via, perhaps, the Shuman Resonances? I myself have had several glimpses of past lives in vision and dreams. Whose lives were they, and who was seeing them using my mind? Does self itself travel electromagnetically and, perhaps, genetically?

8/31/2013 at 1:01 PM

I mentioned this before but it's worthmentioning again.....Planeria, swamp fauna were trained to respond to a light flashing before shocking them....after they learned to contract upon sensing the light....they were chopped up and fed to later genenerations of the same planeria....results: for 3 generations after the first, the planeria would contract in response to a flashing light....This was a highschool science class project conducted in OREgon ca1965-66.

8/31/2013 at 3:41 PM

E.B. Rothe: I completely agree, and that's so AWESOME!!!! DCR 1948

8/31/2013 at 3:51 PM

Justin: You spoke about the memories we may have even in Utero....I want to relate that I Have complete comprehension of the first taste of Fried Chicken in Utero 1947....on a train ride out west my mother had packed that for the 5 children she had with her....my Brother climbed up onto her lap and stuck his knee in my side so that it made me wince in pain....and I recall her putting him down beside her on the seat and saying something.....but the words I heard her say and remember to this day were to my 14 year old sister who was embarrased by the pregnancy and all the children...."well then go on up front and sit......(sic if you are embarrased). I didn't know what it meant but I heard it and rembered it when she told the story...I recalled the sensation it produced....And for good measure: I was fully aware on day one in the hospital/clinic and what the woman taking care of me was wearing....where I was in space related to the sun (It was warming my back through a window) and when I walked into the same room that my mother was in 36 years later as a law office and saw the same Red Rhododendron in bloom in April....I nearly fainted from the DejaVu.....Babies have cognition and language beyond our recognition...I lived it....DCR 1948

8/31/2013 at 6:43 PM

I feel you folks, in your brave search for the "not yet known to man", phenomenon in your individual and possibly, our collective "genetic coding and transfer of knowledge"
For those who maybe can not relate, this was touched upon in "the clan of the cave bear" book series. (Didn't come across, in the movies with Darryl Hannah, quite as well...
And I also, believe, it's a bit like the x men or super heroes, in general, that some have their own individual "powers" or "talents", than others. And therefore, no 1 "golden rule" can prevail or be presented as, stead fast proof, but the collective is what indicates, there truly may be, more to it, than science, thus far, is able to put their finger upon.
I too have had dreams of being a gaucho, and male and somewhere in a one room l shaped- wood and rock rustic housing...
I even wrote a song about it, called "rest of me".
I placed the setting round abouts 1300's- 1400's.
I am also, convinced that my feeling that Europe's ground felt "more real" than in the USA, was die to the fact that my people came from the old land.
(This I had decided for myself, after my second European Vacation, with boarding school all throughout Europe, two summers long. This also drew me back here, before I even knew much of anything else, of my Earliest Ancestors... And I to this day, still feel the same when home, in the USA, on vacations... the gravity is just not as tangible, there, as here...)
My point, inner compas! pre coded to find home... just as, canines, felines and feathereds, do...amongst all other animals, cattle, elephants, well, you get my gist...
And although, I have no in vitro recollection, I do remember things (events, entire apartment layouts, etc. from 18 months of age... verified through never before had conversations, with relatives who lived certain places at that time of my life who were flabbergasted that I could remember, not only the rooms and their order, but the pictures hung pr placed and where and of whom as well as, the names of and physical descriptions of their animals, who were passed on, by the time I was 24 months...

So, while I haven't had identical experiences, I can relate, to a great extent.

And just as Sir Moore was put Down as a heresay, fantastically, prefabricated, biasly rendered Account of Richard's fatal Last Battle, has now, to be reassessed, by the newest findings and archialogical discoveries, of late...
What we think we know, isn't always, all there is, to the story...

;-)
<3 Renée <3

9/1/2013 at 2:39 AM

Ms. Renee: I have an inner BARD, who demands to be let loose every now and then....Mostly when Im moved by scenic pictures of lands and places I have never been....Or when having a motion picture experience like the Zefrelli, Romeo and Julliet ca 1970. I was speaking and writing in ways that were clearly not a farm kid from OREGON via NEbraska FARM people...I once wrote an entrie chapter in character as a first century early Christian Believer making observations of my own Church experience and it was lengthy, beautiful to read, inspired I thought.....Because I did not have a name for this experience I left it unsigned on my pastors desk.....HE was literally a member of the FLAT EARTH society and after glancing at it threw my precious words and insights into the TRASH!!!! Work of SATAN he pronounced.....I never felt the same about his leadership after that.....LOL. Sometimes, our lives are in resonance with places or people whom we have never met or places been....And I get that Big time when I look at the Welsh landscape... In the words of my inner being: " The land is awaiting the arrival of a lost son....so see and experience the place you left so long ago....and to breathe the Air of Wales once more in your lungs, ans sing a song of Lowland Misty Marsh Lands come alive for the first time."
I hear the Robert Burns thing a lot from people....LOL. I can hardly wait, I am but mere hours away from touching the Land my ANCESTOR left in 1640....and the 373 year span seems like last month somehow...." For I've steamed across Oceans you see, and did not recognise the places I set foot to.....But this time, Oh the feet will dance upon ancient SACRED soils once again." DCR 1948

9/1/2013 at 2:58 AM

Henry IV is my 17th great uncle. His father John of Gaunt was my 17th great grand father.

9/1/2013 at 4:45 AM

Mr. Rice, breathtakingly, lovely! And quite fitting as well as, quite moving.
I am thrilled, for you and your visit to places of origin! ENJOY IT... but then again, I am quite certain, you will!
I believe, the mind is a powerful instrument and put to proper and extensive use... will always, bloom a Plethora of astounding and yes, at times even, miraculous products!
You definitely, have a fascinating insight and developed some sort of "receiver", to capture and interpret AND relay said, frequencies and vibrations. Thank you for sharing that with us! I look forward to "reading" more of you. (Not, always, within the reasonable realm of SAFETY in Public Thoughts... but that may just be... one of the reasons, I´ve just become a fan... of your work!)
Wish all of my Cousins and Relatives, bucking (yes, bucking with a "b"... no, typo. :-D ) fantastic Sun- Day!!!!!!!!
:-))
<3 Renée <3

9/1/2013 at 8:18 AM

By the way, take a look at this article, very complete:

http://www.omicsonline.org/2155-9562/2155-9562-2-118.php

Private User
9/1/2013 at 10:57 AM

About genetic memory, not the conscious memory that we are accustomed to think of, but a memory similar to what we understand as subconscious memory is passed across the generations.
I don't believe the language learning example could be due to genetic memory of specific words because languages are fluid and constantly changing. But the thought patterns associated with a specific language may linger dormant for some number of generations only to be awaken by the exposure to that language.
I also found other interesting traits that have been passed genetically to my mother. Since she was about 3 years of age she knew how she wanted to arrange the furniture and decorate a room and her taste for decorating with no external influence matches that which would be present in all those royal generations that have surfaced in this discussion.
I believe the genetic influence albeit very interesting does not fully determine the lives of people but I also believe that it has a very strong influence in the trends of the lives of people.
I saw on television a report about a species of ducks that became completely extinct except for a few eggs that were found. The reason for the extinction of those birds was the inhospitable conditions along their migrating corridor. The team responsible to restore the population of those ducks that originated from the eggs found decided to move the population to a region some 500 miles away from the original corridor. To the surprise of the team members it took only three generations for the new duck population to go back to their previously extinct ancestors migration route. Although this exercise was not intended as a study of genetic memory, this result of the experiment can be used to conclude that animals in general, not necessarily mammals, exhibit genetic memory traits.

9/1/2013 at 11:55 AM

Yes, it makes perfect sense that we have patterns of thought ingrained into our DNA which is preserved perfectly on the Y Chromosome for thousands of years with litle change...As I tried to express....Our faces are part of that basic block of data that groups our features toward the eyes/nose and mouth follow the positioning of the main sensory equipment....Early on this was a fixed part of the Construction plans otherwise, we would have ears nose and mouth all over the place....make for an interesting Art Study: With DNA instruction and a head with RANDOM placement......The random stuff has to come with lower level responsibility for survival like eye color....or skin color....those can be random without causing much loss in survivorship....but move the mouth from below the nose and you get the picture....so it is with the way we perceive time....(a human construct) it seems like we have a past present and future because our memory lineiar....But the science of physics we have only the EVER PRESENT NOW....when they try to measure the Now it shifts to the next position or moment and can't be measured....(SO they say). The stream of data, like our heartbeats come one after the other....hense the idea of time or past is cemented into place....But turely all we have is the NOW! DCR 1948

9/1/2013 at 5:50 PM

SO, 10 months and thousands of words and hundreds of questions later we know who the mother of Perrott ap Rice 1600 is (Margaret Mercer 1575) ca. and her father is the GRANDSON carrying the X Chromosome of his Mother and GRANDMOTHER TACINDA TUDOR sister of Jasper/EDMUND/ David TUDOR....Children of CAtherine of VALOIS and OWEN TUDOR....SCION of the Line of KINGS of ENGLAND....who's direct male line stretches back to the time of JESUS of Nazareth..... The Loop around the Tudor line on the mother's side ascends from Frost to Belgrave to Strutt 4 more to the KING MOTHER's Sister THomasine BEAUFORT.......and that is a lot of people....The caluclations of percentages is small for the DNA reaching to my direct ANCESTOR PERROTT ap RICE 1600 about 12% Tudor via MERCER/to TACINDA but receives a boost from the UNKNOWN MOTHER at EAST ANGLIA who traces back to Margaret BEAUFORT's Sister Thomasine.....Daughters of the natural son of EDWARD III. Thus the BEAUFORT line informs the Tudor LINE of KINGS on their X chromosomes to their children and are re-introduced to the RICE's down line every hundred years or so.....Thus we come to my posted question on the main page of GENI.....when the X blood DNA connects and then Reconnects is it multiplied or Divided and then ADDED.....One line of Deductive REASONING would inform us that it is added to an ever decreasing % of DNA passed down......The other line is my preferred line of thought which is INDCUTIVE and says the the reconnected DNA is MULTIPLIED and reinvigorated....to allow for the faces I recognise 14 generations after they first appeared....ANYONE? BRAVE SOUL that you must be to answer such a NOTION!!!!????? DCR 1948

9/1/2013 at 8:34 PM

I just go with the little I know about chromosome strands that express / are switched on. They recombine for every child & every human being is unique as a result. There is no amplification or multiplication or addition effect.

9/1/2013 at 10:24 PM

You're right, Erica. There's no amplification, multiplication, or addition.

Women have two X chromosomes. Their bodies randomly mix the two, so each child gets a new and unique X chromosome from mom.

The mix isn't an even 50/50. It's just random bits crossing over. Last time this came up I looked at my X chromosome. I don't remember the numbers, but it was something like 12% from my mom's mom and 88% from my mom's dad.

There's no "original" X chromosome. After a few generations, the odds are against having any pieces of your X match a piece of a particular ancestor's X.

9/1/2013 at 10:35 PM

So Clearly with 88% Maternal male DNA you must look like Grampa on mom's side right? DCR

9/1/2013 at 10:41 PM

I think you're looking at the odds? Lets say I get "blue eyes" on my father's side (because that's where mine come from I think) and also my mother's father. Doesn't that mean I have a 75% chance of getting blue eyes instead of 50% (brown eyed mother - and yes, I know blue eyes are a recessive trait, another complication ...)

No, my odds didn't go up to 75% chance, it was still just a random pick for random reasons.

9/1/2013 at 10:42 PM

I can understnad that is does not multiply: But why oh why would X DNA from a common ancestor not be a net addition to a daughter receiving 5% from mother and 1.75% from Dad....? The actual combination may be randomly distributed but the Chances are upped by the net additon...to a daughter....Surely! Boys don't get X except from mom so they would be excluded from the net addition thng I can comprehend that.....You are describing a process which ignores the other X contribution in the daughter... And that's not logical at this point in understanding.....just sayin...DCR

9/1/2013 at 10:49 PM

Im getting a glimmer here: Statistacally there is a net addition for girls CHANCES....but practically speaking it's all random so the chance is not really altered....Is that it? DCr

9/1/2013 at 11:05 PM

Dale, you asked: "So Clearly with 88% Maternal male DNA you must look like Grampa on mom's side right?"

No. It is not accurate to say that I have 88% maternal male DNA. Like everyone else on earth, I have 50% DNA from my father and 50% from my mother.

What I have is one out of my 46 chromosomes (my X chromosome) where 88% of that one chromosome comes from my mother's father. That's a very, very small piece of my total DNA.

And, no. I look like my father. So much so that it's the first thing his relatives tell me -- OMG, you look exactly like your dad!

The only thing I have in common with my mother's father (as far as I've been able to determine) is an unusual eye color / pattern.

9/1/2013 at 11:13 PM

Wow! The world you are describing is a little like trying to comprehend that all of the universe came from nothing, a unitrary fiield of energy.....Bang we have condensed energy in a giant PHASE CHANGE as it cools and slows down and out pops matter from that state....I can follow thiat....In fact I reasoned on my own with no training or reading that moving the multiplication sign from E-MC2 to the left side means that E divided by C2 = M or mass..... To fully grasp that 1/3 of the last 24 family have these faces that look like ancestors is something like 1 in 2 Billion and that's not a scale I can accept just yet.....Im going to have to stare at this for a while....sorry....DCR

9/1/2013 at 11:44 PM

Ain't biology a trip? "life forms" really are a more complex than "dark matter" ... :)

9/2/2013 at 12:03 AM

Dale, I'm trying to think of an easy way to explain why the odds aren't really additive. I know it seems intuitive that they would be, but it doesn't really work that way. It could work that way, in very rare cases, but it almost never will.

One of the main reasons it won't work that way is that the pieces don't descend in one big chunk. For example, my 88% isn't one big piece. It's three or four smaller pieces that add up to 88%.

In each generation, those pieces will get smaller and smaller because the pieces aren't crossing over "at the seams". After just a few generations, the pieces will be so small that they're just slivers.

Because I'm male, my daughter will inherit my X chromosome intact. No cross-over. But her body will create new X chromosomes for each of her children. She'll pass on pieces of my X, but it will be randomly chopped up. Odds are that my grandchildren will get much smaller pieces of the DNA I inherited from my grandfather, and those pieces will be chopped up even more. By the time you get to my great grandchildren, the 88% that I inherited from my grandfather will be just tiny slices on the X chromosomes of some (but not all) of them.

Now, suppose I had married my 2nd cousin, the granddaughter of my grandfather's sister. My grandfather's sister would have had different X chromosomes than my grandfather had. It's important to remember that my grandfather was inheriting a newly created X only from his mother, but his sister was inheriting a newly created X from their mother as well as a their father's already existing X.

The X chromosomes of my grandfather's sister would have been chopped up and recombined when they were inherited by the sister's daughter, and again when they were inherited by the sister's granddaughter (my theoretical wife).

Some pieces between this brother and sister would be the same. So, my cousin/wife and I might both have segments on our X chromosomes that we inherited from our common great grandparents. But also, we might not share any. She could have inherited segments I didn't, or the segments we shared might be so small that they no longer show up as a match.

Most importantly, though -- by the time you get to our grandkids and great grandkids, the segments would probably have disappeared through fragmentation. The kids and grandkids might have benefitted from an additive effect, but in practical terms the different segments would be so small and so broken up that they might not even be traceable to our common great grandparents.

Private User
9/2/2013 at 3:30 AM

How true I work in retail and customers are always coming up to me telling me I look like this one or that one .Do I a sister here or there.Well, I mdon't have a sister.I do and did have a few cousin that we looked alike.So as you said we can look like other people and have no relation at all.
Justin that's not always true that it's male to male the resemblance. often daughters look like their Dads and Sons pick up Mom's trates. DNA is of couse diferent. I don't understand why both male and female don't just pick up both sides of the family but they don't.

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