Turning V.I.P. profiles into projects

I hadn't had a particular particular opinion, just had been seeing what people had to say.

Re: "Walk us through an example where there is a profile and a project with only that profile."

There are several examples already - A Tribute to Audrey just above caught my imagination.

But my real question (and why I posted above) is

Is there a rule that this is a single profile project?

I could "see" a Bessie Smith's World (needs better title) with multiple profiles in it that are not family, obviously the late great Janis Joplin.

Not sure I can see an "only Bessie" the same way an "only Audrey" works fine, which is interesting.

I'm a terrible engineer & not much of a graphics person.

But I can "just paint.".

I'll try it.

Thanks Justin. And just to add, if there is something that can be done better with projects that can't be done with profiles, maybe we need to improve profiles, instead of circumventing them.

Erica, you're missing my point.

I've looked at examples of one profile projects. I said so above at some length.

What I'm talking about is an example of how a project like this one, with only one profile, would have an advantage over just having the project.

When I say "advantage", I mean something very specific. Why would discussions be more active? Why wouldn't separating photos, documents and discussions hurt the centrality of the profile? What is the specific reason that a project works better than a profile to gather information or promote discussion?

Erica, I think you should re-read some of Justin's comments, because he (and I) can understand fan/tribute pages and how they might have content that isn't best suited for the profile about, but how does it apply to profiles like Alan Greenspan? I'd like to see an example as Justin requested.

* advantage over just having the PROFILE

My comment was about how I could see such a project. I was not inspired on a single profile project; I was, after letting the idea sink in, interested in a multiple profile project centered around a person. I don't think I'd name it the same as a profile, I'd find that confusing. (but I don't like "Bessie's World" all that much so ...). "A tribute to Audrey" is a great title.

Multiple profile projects are what we have now. I don't think there's any debate about the value of those.

Here's a project I enjoy centered around a person. It has a clear mission statement

http://www.geni.com/projects/The-Lenin-Project/3362

I'd like to see an example that he creates, based on his idea.

Or that a couple of people do? See what works, what doesn't. We know the "fan page" works.

Erica, I'm afraid you're missing the point. Perhaps I'm not being clear. If not, then that might also explain why Dimitri isn't answering my questions.

There are projects like this. Yes. Got it. No question. I've seen them. Some of them are very nicely done.

However, there is no debate -- at least none that I can see -- that's it's possible to create a project with just one profile.

Some, like the Audrey Hepburn project, are fan pages. Some, like the Lenin project, have a specific research objective.

What Dimitri has suggested is a mass effort to create hundreds of new projects with just one profile. At least, that's my understanding. It's also my understanding that he believes this will translate into create social opportunity for Geni's users to chat with each other and share their interests and enthusiasm, while also preserving the stories (apparently in a way that profiles cannot).

So, what I'm asking for is NOT an example of a project with one profile. I'm asking for a technical overview of the process. How would it work? What are the advantages? Why is project+profile better than just a profile? Why aren't the objections that have been raised something we need to think about?

Please don't think I'm being harsh, but saying "Oooo, here's a pretty one" isn't an answer to the questions.

Ahhh, now I see where the confusion and misunderstanding come in.

Erica, you inching closer to the questions. You said -- We know the "fan page" works.

Works in what way?

Look at the Audrey Hepburn project. No discussions. So, I don't think it can be proof of concept.

Look at the Lenin project. It's not quite the same thing as Dimitri is suggesting because it's a project with a specific goal, which is to explore some of the mysteries in Lenin's ancestry. So, not just a fan page. Plus, it has many more profiles than just Lenin himself. Nevertheless, notice there are three project discussions. Two are linked to Lenin's profile. One isn't.

So, the Lenin project seems to bear out one of the concerns expressed here -- the profile+project model leads to fragmentation not integration. If I want to find Lenin discussions it's not good enough to just look at the discussions tab on his profile. I have to also check the project.

Let's think more about what it means to say "we know a fan page works".

Yes, I had thought Dmitri's ideas more open ended: introducing a topic, and letting the conversation that ensued help shape what the end product might be.

I didn't see that he had a template ready to go to mass produce project duplicates of profiles.

I can understand how it might have come across that way.

Erica. Again. I'm talking about methodology not templates. The advantages and disadvantages of having a project in addition to a profile, not examples of projects.

Private User

I love your project http://www.geni.com/projects/Hvem-tror-du-at-du-er/1263 with the neat display of mugshots.

There are 15,989 projects on geni as of today.
I consider projects unhealthy under the following conditions:

Unhealthy projects...
1) Have no description explaining the goals of the project.
2) Have had no profiles added to them in the past 12 months.
3) Have only 1 contributor or a single follower.

Unfortunately a substantial number of projects stall soon after creation because the creator isn't really committed to maintaining them.

As you create projects please focus on the quality of the project and not quantity of projects created. If you've created a project that has the issues listed above please remove it. Not doing so is just like the refrigerator in the lunch room at work. We keep shoving food in there and forgetting about it and it soon turns moldy and starts stinking :)

As far as VIP projects are concerned I have nothing inherently negative to say. They could be useful and collaborative or on the other hand the could wither and die. The results ultimately depend on those involved and the perceived value those involved got out of the process.

If not successful please return and clean up after yourself something I wish a substantial amount of the 15,989 existing projects had remembered to do.

Best of luck,

--Randy Stebbing

Randy Stebbing,

There are projects that have not been added to as they have been completed.

I am not sure it makes sense to delete inactive projects. For example, the Jewish town projects are set up for completeness sake. It was always anticipated that some would be more active than others, because of the sizes of the communities involved. See for example the communities in Moravia. http://www.geni.com/projects/Jewish-Communities-in-Bohemia-and-Mora...

Kevin Lawrence Hanit

Good point. If there was a project on the 1911 "Triangle Factory Fire" in New York that killed 146 people the project would be complete once all 146 profiles were added to geni.

I was wrong to say "Unhealthy projects have had no profiles added to them in the past 12 months."

Instead I should have said unhealthy projects "Have had no profiles added to them at all."

I was just whining about how common abandoned projects are Here's an example of how soon people forget their created projects.

Of the 25 projects on this page well more than half of them (I counted 17) were totally abandoned and years later still have not been touched.

http://www.geni.com/projects?following_only=false&page=554

Back to the discussion on VIP projects --They will succeed or fail on their own merits.

Justin - I understand your question, I think. I believe you're looking for a clearer mission statement?

The way my mind would be working in high school painting class, I couldn't answer at this point. I'd be dabbing a bit of green here, making a cross hatch there. Going out for coffee & a game of ping pong. Make a wild pile of notecards & pinning them to the wall. Taking them down, throwing them in the air, shuffling them, doodling on a few. Find a tangent idea & start 3 new paintings.

In other words, the concept isn't soup yet. Keep it cooking & let's see.

Not looking for a mission statement. Look for a comparison of two different ways of doing what seems to me to be the same thing.

Re: "Walk us through an example where there is a profile and a project with only that profile. Then show us why the project approach will do wonderful things that can't be done with just the profile."

I know that if I'm in painting mode I couldn't. I'd have to be doing all my noodling about first. After I've got something interesting to me I perhaps could. But probably not describable to someone else until the 3rd or 4th draft.

I'm interested also in where Jeroen goes with the idea. Might be something entirely different, which would be delightful.

Erica, the big selling point here is that this other way of doing things is "better". You said yourself it has been proven to work.

If so, why is it so difficult to describe what is better and how it works??

A simple question. What's wrong with approaching a project two diferent ways. Then looking everything over and melding everything together. I mean each separate project could turn up something that neither has and then everything could be combined. Sometimes more then one set of eyes looking at things differently can really be helpful. Just a though. What's the problem with this person coming up with this project. If someone wants to add to it fine. If not , then don't/ People's minds don't all work the same way.

Dimitri describes himself as an artist. I'm not an artist myself, but i did have that training. And for me, it's as I said. First you see. Then you try. Lastly you describe.

Did you watch Madmen at all? The creative noodling (idea, then pitch, then noodle, then totally change it) was accurate to my days in advertising & film.

Description is reverse engineering the magic.

I have a profile were I think it could be very useful with a project and not on the profile and that of his sons.

Ragnar 'Lodbrok' Sigurdsson King of Denmark and Norway

If every one that has some interest in him they all posted it on Ragnars profile it would be a mess and infact that is what it was before a big clean up, and sometimes it becomes that again because a lot of people want a connection to him.
IF there was a project that adressed this and made it possible for them to connect with others with the same interest a lot might be avoided on the profile itself.

Ok I seem to think faster than my Typing. Top row Were it could be useful with a project and not on the profile, that would be on Ragnar Lodbrog.

Yes, Anette, that's like Sharon's Charlesmagne project. I found it very helpful when she was on hiatus and there was a misplaced grand daughter to sort. Couldn't have done it without someone else's help and the project notes.

(self correcting) actually you might need two projects for Ragnar - the genealogy & the VIP.