Regina van Rapenberg van Guinea, SM/PROG - mtDNA M30c

But that makes Jannetjie Bort Indian?
Great research project here.

Yes -thanks so much Dries for sharing your result - it's extremely interesting!

Considering that Haplogroup M30 is a South Asian/ India-specific maternal lineage - I agree that an origin in West Africa should be questioned.

As Sharon correctly points out -slaves were moved around by the VOC - so Regina's "van Guinea" toponym may not have had anything to do with her ethnicity.

But as far as I've read....the WIC only established a lodge at Popo in Guinea in 1660 ...a few years after Regina was transported on the Hasselt. So it's unclear how a slave of Asian maternal lineage would have come to be in Popo prior to a permanent Dutch presence https://books.google.co.za/books?id=TpyfBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA66&lp...

Something else perhaps more important to question is the proposed link between Jannetje Bort van de Caap and Regina van Rapenberg van Guinea.....a link which does not appear to be certain.

It would be extremely useful to find a descendant of Lijsbeth Jansz van de Caap for testing.....to see if the lines of the proposed sisters have matching mtDNA.

=question is the proposed link between Jannetje Bort van de Caap and Regina van Rapenberg van Guinea.....a link which does not appear to be certain.=
Yes - the link to Jannetje Bort definitely needs Sourcing. Anyone have any Sources under their mattresses?

Cant the fact that Catharina "Groote Catrijn" van Paliacatta
was my 7th Great-grandmother in my Fathers line have an effect on the results.

It's important to understand that there are 3 different types of DNA used for genealogy tests:

1. mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is only inherited from your mother . Both men and women get their mtDNA from their mother, but only women can pass it on. Your mtDNA represents a single maternal line: mother's mother's mother's mother's mother....etc.

2. Y-DNA is passed from father to son. Only men have it. It follows the same line as a man's surname.

3. Autosomal DNA (atDNA) comes form all your ancestors.

Dries -your mtDNA belongs to Haplogroup M30c. You inherited that Haplogroup from your mother, so we know that your mother was also M30c. She got it from her mother...who got it from her mother..etc...all the way back to Jannetje Bort van de Caap. So long as that line of descent has been correctly recorded (no mistakes/adoptions) then we can safely predict that Jannetjie Bort v.d.C was M30c. Unfortunately we can't be sure that Jannetje was Regina's daughter....the evidence isn't conclusive.....and Haplogroup M30c doesn't fit comfortable for someone who came from West Africa. Jannetje's DNA seems to be telling us that her mother was a slave of Indian descent....not Regina.

Catherina van Paliacatta could not have had any affect on your mtDNA.(because she is in your father's line).
But she might have an affect on your atDNA....if you inherited some segments from her. The part of your test that says: 42%North European,36% Mediterranean,20% Southwest Asian -is an analysis of your atDNA. If you did a more refined analysis (by uploading your raw data to Gedmatch)...you'd be able to see what percentage of South Asian DNA you inherited....possibly from Catherina or other Indian ancestors.

Thanks Ian,
If you are not a teacher then you should have been one. (missed your calling)

He's good hey? :-)

Thanks Dries!
But unfortunately I did get one thing wrong: Genographic results can't be uploaded to Gedmatch. The files aren't compatible at the moment...but hopefully may change at some point.

Thanks everybody for the Compliments , acknowledgements and other honors that I received for this small contribution I make to history and Genealogy . (I surely now are the black sheep of the Vissers/Potgieters)
When 54 years ago I asked for my Mother in laws consent I saw there was some hesitation on her side and quickly said " Don't worry I will be famous and appreciated one day." She replied " I believe for all the wrong reasons"

:-)And you are - for all the right reasons, cuzzin :-)

@Dries: I am sure your West African/Indian heritage will go down swell at the next family Christmas. I can't wait to break the news to some of my very conservative Afrikaans family members that I have West African and Indonesian blood. Lol!

The strange thing about this "Mixed Blood Thing" is that it doesn't" hurt "in your vains.

(another strange thing that I see is that @Sharon and me was great friends precisely a year
ago. look at the acclaim I got from her in her in her post dated 22/1/2015.-) )

It should have been only one "in her".

@Dries, I agree. To think of all the stories our ancestors can tell. It makes for fascinating discoveries.

Ummdat-un-nisa

CLICK ON THE LINK and you will see my relation line to my newly discovered cousins and family.
The family migrated from India to the USA during the 1800`s. They became Muslims during the 1300`s in India. The Muslims of old did not kept record of female line and so all the names of my Grgrgrgrgrgrgrgrandmotrs are for ever lost.. Luckily for Dna they can be traced.
During the 1600`s there was an internal strife in the part of India where they are from and I am of the opinion that they start selling each other as slaves. Lucky for me my Grandmother landed in Capetown, otherwise i wouldn't have been.

Hello all,

I have taken the MtDNA test on the 1 April- expect results end of June-July 2017, as Dries Potgieter and I share the same maternal line, we will be further able to confirm the M30c line. Myself and another family member have had the test done through the National Health Labs in SA. They are providing the test for around R1500 - once a month at the KhoiSan museum at Wits University. The cost also includes a visit to the VERY interesting museum. As soon as I get my results, I will upload them.
It is a good way for others on this site to confirm DNA heritage at a cost effective means.
Regards Alison

Hi Alison,
Glad to hear that somebody else is going to share all my family scandals.
Please contact me when you receive the results
Your dear beloved Cousin

Hi Alison Mary Hall; Did you receive your results ?

Martin Andreas Karl (Dries) Potgieter and Sharon Doubell

Have a conflicting mtDNA result in today.

Hilda Victoria Scott-Hayward being the mother of Private User - he has tested N1a1a2 for Regina van Rapenberg van Guinea - unfortunately his tree is marked private throughout but you can navigate from Hilda Victoria Hayward (Ingram):

https://www.geni.com/path/Hilda-Victoria-Hayward+is+related+to+Regi...

I'm not seeing an mtDNA line for him that extends beyond his grandmother, Hilda Elizabeth (Eliza) Goosen?

Good day all,

As I mentioned earlier in my post, I decided to take the MtDNA test-this was to confirm that Dries Potgieter and myself share the same MtDNA as we are cousins and share the dame direct maternal line.

Well, to put a spanner in the works here- my test results ARE NOT THE same!! Just to double check, my daughter was also tested- her and I are M33a3, and not M30c1.

Dries and I should have had the same results- as we share the same maternal line.
So now we have 2 MtDNA test results for Jannetjie Bort!

For my MtDna, 2 people share the exact match in Pakistan. Out of around 11 000 people tested internationally, only 17 others have the MtDna M33a3. One group is a tribe called Toto, and another is the Tadvi people of Gujavat, India.

So this puts a whole new spin on the geni tree. Is there anyone else out there, who is prepared to have the MtDNa test done, that also has the direct maternal line as myself and Dries Potgieter?

Maybe there will be yet another MtDNA marker for Jannetjie Bort out there?

Thanks for posting Alison. The two results still seem to me to be close enough that one possibility is that one or the testing companies was slightly off. But I'm no expect in the area As you say, it would be good to confirm with somebody else taking the test.

I've updated the Curator Note on Jannetje Bort to reflect the two alternatives

@ Sharon Doubell thank you. That may be possible, but I doubt it. I think it is possible that as the partner of both Koddo and Jannetjie was a keeper of slaves for the VOC, he may have fathered more children from many other woman that have not been recorded? Perhaps some or many unrecorded slaves saw fathering a child with a person of the Voc may have been a means of survival in South Africa?

Hopefully more descendants will take the MtDna test to confirm the outcomes of what is written in history

Alison, you may be right, and I think the horrible truth is that if you were a slave you didn't even have a choice. :-{

Alison, I am a novice at Dna, But you should remember that it is the mothers line that we are referring to so it actually doesn't matter who the father was.
Lets look for another possible candidate and share the costs 3 ways although to me it seems that the Halls, are the better offs and should pay three quarts of the costs.

With regard to the new predicted Haplogroup N1a1a2 result for Regina van Rapenberg van Guinea (through descendant Hilda Victoria Scott-Hayward).

Note that this result is in conflict with the L0a1b2a result for Regina van Guinea reported on the FTDNA Cape Dutch Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/public/CapeDutch?iframe=mtresults

Any chance we can get further info about the FTDNA descendant Em Lo ?

Back to the N1a... result, I've quickly traced another possibility to the following profile:

Regina De Jonker

Now her mother could perhaps not have been the daughter of Regina vRvG, if you see on the above profile in the about section there are some discussions regarding her mother, and two people being the same person. If all the trees are correct this could point that they were in fact different persons, and that the mother of the above profile was indeed a different woman called Elizabeth Jansen, from Scandanavia presumably.