Col. Gilbert Kennedy of Ardmillan - Sorting Col Gilbert Kennedy of Ardmillam

Private User Any help you can offer on untangling these Kennedy’s is appreciated.

I do not think that Colnel Gilbert Kennedy of Ardmillan is the same person as Gilbert Kennedy, son of Hew, Master of Cassillis.

I have noticed some issues with thepeerage. But that isn't to say it's a bad source.. Could you elaborate what you seen that makes you question this?

It would appear that Gilbert Kennedy "My Lord of Cassillis brother" has not been found mentioned after 9 March 1632. Significantly, perhaps, his name is not mentioned in the regrant obtained by his brother, Earl John, on 29 September 1642. https://archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun02pauluoft/page/474

The Christian name Gilbert was popular with the Kennedys, but I have been unable to find even one example of being used by a member of the Ardmillan family.

Private User It appears ThePeerage.com is accurate for the Cassillis Kennedy’s (perhaps incomplete); its the Geni tree that’s built on a faulty source - apparently the Irish Fasti Records for Kennedy ministers on the Ulster Plantation.

I’m digesting the analysis here:

http://www.kennedydna.com/Colonel_Gilbert_Kennedy_of_Ardmillan.htm

Which is pretty thorough. He’s debunked both the Cassillis & the Ardmillan claim, it looks like.

The Peerage website is highly reliant on Burke’s 2003, which is a good source, but “not” the “go to” for landed gentry in Scotland. Better start points are the Clan McFarlane and Leo Van Der Pass’s Geneaologics for example. But detail work needs to get into the original family studies.

My ancestral connector to America is Hugh Kennedy, of Ballycultra, Dr. of Physick so he and supposed Mother Isabel Campbell are my next stops.

I’ve disconnected the Colonel, locked relationships to “no parents,” and removed the Ardmillan property identifier, which made no sense given supposed Ayrshire origins anyway.

I’m getting somewhere - found descent as “Kennedy of Cultra,” claiming a lineage to the Earls of Cassillis but without specifics in Burke’s:

Hugh Kennedy, of Ballycultra, Dr. of Physick

Seems from other studies to have been the father of John Kennedy

Burke’s describes the line here:

https://archive.org/stream/genealogicalhera01byuburk#page/897/mode/1up

Erica, I understand that. My issue with it, is I have noticed sometimes, not always, sometimes, They attribute the wrong dates, or names, BUT this comes with common names being passed down through the generations. Same first name , same surname, no middle name.

Yes, the many Gilbert Kennedy’s are a good example of that.

It looks like the parents of Isabel Campbell (wife of Colonel Gilbert Kennedy) were Prior Alexander Campbell of Ardchattan and his wife Mary MacArthur with a brother who settled in Germany Patrick de Harter

She has too many Geni children so that’s my next step.

From http://www.arborealis.ca/blog/19thC-genealogy-kennedy/

What happens when such a family claims an ancestral connection to a Baron or an Earl? and the family history was not recorded, for example, in a "received" genealogy such as Burke's? [2] or documents to support the claim either cannot be found or were never recorded? Well, then and in that case (to coin a phrase often encountered in Irish deeds), 'tis time to sink the genealogical wimble and burrow for research evidence once again.

The genealogical outline of the Kennedys of Carland, [3] as penned by J. Carmichael-Ferrall who, in turn, drew upon a manuscript by the Rev. Dr. James Kennedy-Bailie, D.D., F.T.C.D. (1793-1864), [4] is one such example. The great great grandson of Thomas Kennedy's brother, the Rev. Gilbert Kennedy (1627-1688), Dr. Kennedy-Bailie composed his genealogical notes about 150 years after the death of his forebear. He even went so far as to engage an agent to ferret out court records in Scotland—plus ça change.

As useful as this article proves to the construction of a goodly sized Kennedy family tree, it makes two ancestral claims which have yet to be substantiated, that is, corroborated to other sources, viz.—:

firstly, that the father-in-law of the Rev. Thomas Kennedy, Major William O'Brien of the Bawn,[5] was "nearly related to the Lords Inchiquin and Ibrican."—The phrase, nearly related, means closely related but not in the direct line of primogeniture (male inheritance). The phrase is also used to denote a degree of relationship somewhat removed from the hereditary line—cousins of the first, second, and even further degree. While several printed genealogies exist for the Earls of Inchiquin, unfortunately I have yet to find which one shows a William O'Brien whose daughter married the Rev. Thomas Kennedy. Major O'Brien may well have been a cousin-german to the main line of that noble house (or not), and his name and father simply not recorded.
secondly, that the Rev. Thomas Kennedy and his brother, Gilbert (also a Presbyterian minister), descended from the Earls of Cassilis of Ardmillan in Ayrshire, Scotland. Specifically, Dr. Kennedy-Bailie asserted the following, based on court documents which his agent in Scotland discovered:
Gilbert second Earl of Cassilis, had, as appears from the
Charter of the mains of Cassilis and other lands, several
sons, of whom Gilbert, the eldest, inherited the honors,
etc., and Thomas, the second, had a charter of the lands of
Ardmillan, or Ardmilland, in Ayrshire. He was succeeded by
his eldest son Thomas, who died in November, 1586, and was
succeeded by Thomas, his eldest son, as appears from his
retour* of heirship, dated 9th May, 1609. This last Thomas
Kennedy had three sons——Thomas, Hugh, and Gilbert, as appears
from the College of Glasgow, where the first and last studied,
and the records of the Court of Chancery, where the retour of
the second son as heir was discovered by Dr. Kennedy’s agent
which retour took place in 1640. The records of their
matriculation bear date, respectively, 1637 and 1642.[3]

*According to Merriam-Webster, the word, retour, is chiefly Scottish,
meaning “the return made to the court of chancery on a brieve of inquest
with the jury’s verdict thereon.” Source: merriam-webster.com (accessed
2016-07-06).

Whether these retours have survived is not known. A scan of the catalogue entries under PRONI ref. D2315, the Gaussen, Kennedy, Bailie, and Magill papers, shows a sub-fond at ref. D2315/9 entitled, Printed material and miscellaneous family papers, which would need to be checked for the existence of these documents. If the documents survive, they may have been deposited in another archive.

However, another problem exists, in that the outline above varies not only with the genealogy printed in Burke's, but also that given in McConnell's Fasti. [1] To illustrate, the first image below depicts extracts of the genealogy given for the Earls of Cassillis in Burke's Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary (1878) supplemented by Burke's Landed Gentry (2001) [2]:

The next image extracts that portion of the family tree, above, beginning with the first Earl of Cassillis through the seventh, and shows where McConnell, in the Fasti, and Dr. Kennedy-Bailie provide additional information. Note that McConnell (Fasti) states that the Revds. Thomas and Gilbert Kennedy were sons of Colonel Gilbert Kennedy, while Dr. Kennedy-Bailie concluded that they were the sons of Thomas who inherited Ardmillan in 1609.

http://www.arborealis.ca/_Media/kennedy_cassillis_burke_fas.jpeg

That would be Rev. Gilbert Kennedy & Thomas Kennedy, of Dunure

Tamás Flinn Caldwell-Gilbert Can you take a look at Robert David Wilson ?

The profile may have been corrupted since you entered it.

Contrary to what Dr. Kennedy-Bailie asserted, Thomas Kennedy of Ardmillan (who died on 27 November 1586) was not the son of Thomas Kennedy, and the grandson of Gilbert, second Earl of Cassillis.

It would appear that Gilbert, Earl of Cassillis, did have a son named Thomas, but he is reported to have died before 2 November 1560. https://archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun02pauluoft/page/465

Thomas Kennedy of Ardmillan (who died on 27 November 1586) was the son of John Kennedy of Ardmillan. This is confirmed by Great Seal charter, dated 28 August 1622, that is made in favour of his son, also Thomas Kennedy of Ardmillan, which identified the recipient as the son of Thomas Kennedy of Ardmillan and the grandson of John Kennedy of Ardmillan https://archive.org/details/registrummagnisi08scot/page/120

From http://www.arborealis.ca/resources/surnames/kennedy-of-carland-pari...

With respect to him, I here state, that being empowered to preach by the Presbytery of Ayr, he came to Ireland by the appointment of the extraordinary commission of the Kirk in the summer of 1648; and being a nephew to John, the fifth Earl of Cassills [sic],[7] and cousin-german to John, the sixth commissioner to the Westminster Assembly, whose family was by matrimonial alliance connected with that of the Earl of Stirling; ...,

7. This is the earliest record found, by this writer, of the Kennedys' claim of descent from the second son of Gilbert, 5th Earl of Cassillis—also named Gilbert, whom they further asserted held the title of Colonel and possessed Ardmillan Castle. Readers may wish to refer to the 8th July 2016 blog article on this subject.

http://www.arborealis.ca/blog/19thC-genealogy-kennedy/

Of course, Dr. Kennedy-Bailie asserted a different line of descent from the Earls of Cassillis for the Revds. Thomas and Gilbert Kennedy—through Sir Thomas of Culzean, the second son of the 3rd Earl. A thorough assessment of the validity of this claim would require considerable resources and an intensive undertaking which, to be frank, are beyond the scope of my research goals, at least for the foreseeable future. In the meantime, I would suggest that this particular family history, along with the contrary claim made in the Irish Fasti, ought best be filed under the heading of:

Lessons learnt:

Genealogical proofs have not been found to corroborate the claim that the Rev. Thomas Kennedy of Carland and his brother, Gilbert of Dundonald, descended from either the Barons of Inchiquin and Ibrican (O'Brien) of county Clare, or the Earls of Cassillis in Ayrshire.
Beware printed genealogies. The mere fact that a family history has been printed, published, and bound, as they often are, in cloth or leather, does not enhance the reliability of the genealogical evidence presented therein.
Many, if not most, of the "received" peerages (i.e., considered authoritative) do not cite sources: how, then, is the family historian to assess the reliability of the content, especially where conflicting genealogies exist? (...except by undertaking a long-term, expensive research project.)
Dr. Kennedy-Bailie's family history is probably much more reliable, moving forward from the lives of the Revds. Thomas and Gilbert Kennedy. The wise researcher would still seek independent corroboration and where this is not possible, append a cautionary note to the family tree so presented.

“A careful reading of the chart should clarify the points of dissension between the various sources. Not only did McConnell, Dr. Bailie, and Rev. Mr. M'Kay introduce conflicting claims of kinship, but there are also differences between the genealogies presented by Burke and Balfour Paul on the one hand, and those by Paterson, Douglas/Wood, McDowall, and Moss, on the other. All of these inconsistences, and the absence of adequate genealogical proofs—together with the research conducted and the essay written by Iain Kennedy on the subject—render the claims made by McConnell and the Kennedy descendants unsupportable. Arguably, the "received" genealogies—Balfour Paul, Burke, Douglas/Wood, et al—could be considered unreliable sources of genealogical data, as well.”

——

So it sounds like we don’t know who the parents of Col Gilbert Kennedy were despite quite a few attempts to reconcile the data.

BROWN, KEITH M. “A House Divided: Family and Feud in Carrick under John Kennedy, Fifth Earl of Cassillis.” The Scottish Historical Review, vol. 75, no. 200, 1996, pp. 168–196. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/42745565.

More trouble ...

From https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/OO... Kelsey Jackson Williams 20 August 2017

>I commented briefly on the questionable nature of the Dowling pedigree back when it was first brought up in 2013. Looking at it more closely, though (http://gw.geneanet.org/tdowling?lang=fr&pz=timothy+michael&...) it's clear that it's an absolute farrago of fantasy and wishful thinking. To take an example, one of the alleged children of the Gilbert Kennedy and Isabel Campbell you mention is supposed to be a certain Hugh Kennedy who married Mary Upton. This was Dr. Hugh Kennedy of Ballycultra, co. Down (see _Scottish Antiquary_ 11 [1897]: 44) but he neither had a son William nor a father Gilbert - his actual father being Oliver Kennedy, 1st of Breakath, a younger son of the Balmaclanachan family.

___

This affects Hugh Kennedy, of Ballycultra, Dr. of Physick and also his brothers (named in each other’s wills) David Kennedy, Esq., of Ballycultra & John Kennedy of Craig, elder, Apothecary in Edinburgh

—-

I will set up new parents for them and post the link.

My newly found 11th Great Grandfather (possibly)

Oliver Kennedy, 1st of Breakath

I’ve moved children & updated notes:

Updated August 2019

Colonel Gilbert Kennedy & Thomas Kennedy, of Dunure have been attributed children who were actually the children of Oliver Kennedy, 1st of Breakath

Margaret Kennedy, John Kennedy of Craig, elder, Apothecary in Edinburgh David Kennedy, Esq., of Ballycultra Jane Ramsey, Mary Hamilton and Hugh Kennedy, of Ballycultra, Dr. of Physick were not their children.

Disconnected Priscilla Dickson as child of Hugh Kennedy, of Ballycultra, Dr. of Physick & Mary Peacock

- Her given birth date is c 1634 - he was born c 1626 & his contract of marriage was dated July 22, 1679.
- no daughters listed in his 1685 will (ref: https://archive.org/details/scottishantiquar11unse/page/44)
- the Dickson genealogy names her father Hugh Kennedy so there must have been another one

There’s been quite a bit to sort & correct with these Kennedy’s !

I’m now looking at Lady Jonet Stewart

According to Paterson’s History of Ayr:

https://books.google.com/books?id=BIXSAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA281&dq...

We have before us the substance of the testament of "quondam Domine Jonete Stewart, Domine de Culzeane," who died on the 24 of December 1551. She appointed as her executors, JOHN GREIR OF LAG, Patrick Kennedy, her son, and Alexander Stewart of Garrulas.

According to TSP:

https://archive.org/details/scotspeeragefoun04pauluoft/page/152

"The eldest son, is designed of the Grenane, and son and heir apparent of Alexander Stewart of Garlies, knight, in the records of parliament, 1495. According to some accounts, he fell at the battle of Flodden, 9th September 1513 ; but, according to others, he predeceased his father, who was the person killed at Flodden."

"They had one son, Alexander, and sixteen daughters: the eldest Janet married to Sir John Kennedy of Cullean;

And according to Paterson at https://books.google.com/books?id=BvEHAAAAQAAJ&lpg=PA385&ot...

III. George Kennedy of Balmaclanachan was on the assize at the trial of George Crawfurd of Lefnoreis, in 1554, for intercommuning with the Laird of Ballagane. He was arraigned, along with a number of others, in 1563, for attempting to restore Popery at Kirkoswald, &c.t He married Janet, daughter of Patrick Kennedy of Bargalton and Camciscan. He and his wife were infeft in the lands of Balmaclanachan. Camciscan afterwards fell into the hands of Balmaclanachan, and were sold to Robert Wallace, son of Hugh Wallace of Cairnhill, by Lady Balmaclanachan, with consent of her husband, and her sister, Egldia, widow of John Grierson of Lag. The resignation is dated at Edinburgh, the 5th of May, 1562, and at Drumlanrig the 4th of April, 1563...”

—-

So Egidia 'Geillis' Kennedy was the sister of Janet Kennedy and their mother was the sister of Sir Alexander Stewart of Garlies

Are we agreed?

A message from Jonathan Gray

Re Oliver Kennedy, 1st of Breakath

I have been researching various Ulster Kennedys over the last 5 years and may have another perspective on the Oliver Kennedy of Breakath. I have located an Oliver Kennedy in Ulster from at least 1622 and who is identified in a Registered Deed with members of the Balmaclanahan Kennedys. His residence is referred to as Brocagh, Co Down in his Will.